The raise

Josh Clemente: And I remember the night that it happened, Sam and I were on a call. We talked to VJ and closed the terms. And I got up out of my desk after that closed, and it was late at night, I don’t even remember what time, stumbled into the bathroom and just saw myself in the mirror. I think I took a selfie actually, because I was like, “This is what it looked like to close that round.” And I just looked haggard. I mean, it looked like I hadn’t slept in three days. I was wearing just a big baggy shirt and bags under my eyes. It was not that glamorous, not going to pop champagne, just going to try and get some sleep. And it was just such a good feeling, it was very rewarding, but also it felt different than what you probably expect it to feel like.

Ben Grynol: I’m Ben Grynol, part of the early startup team here at Levels. We’re building tech that helps people to understand their metabolic health. And this is your front row seat to everything we do. This is a whole new level.

Ben Grynol: Between January and July of 2020, a lot had changed for Levels, and a lot had changed in the world. At the beginning of the year, the Levels team started fulfilling orders. The initial members, they were giving the orders they had placed in 2019. And we all know what happened around the beginning of March in the world. Things were drastically different. In the startup ecosystem, this meant that conversations with VCs, that’s venture capitalists, well, they dried up pretty quickly. People were hesitant to do anything. There’s so much risk and ambiguity with startups to begin with that there were these unknowns. Would companies survive? Would they find a way to be resilient, to pivot, to continue to get traction through COVID? Nobody knew.

Ben Grynol: So it wasn’t until the summer, almost a year to the date that Levels had been incorporated, that conversation started to return in the fundraising ecosystem. And so over the course of the summer and into the fall, the Levels team continued to execute. In July, the wait list was growing. Things were picking up on platforms like Twitter and Instagram, where the earliest beta members were sharing screenshots of their data, talking about this new platform. This program, this product, this new company that they had their eye on, and this raised awareness all around.

Ben Grynol: So when conversations returned with investors, the dynamic was much different. The Levels team was able to raise a $12 million seed round, which gave even more fuel to ramp things up. So this is the final episode in telling the backstory of Levels. From here on out, we’ll be talking about the company in real time. You’ll be hearing more from thought leaders, from different team members. We’ll talk about the highs, the lows, the things that come with building a startup. And as you listen, well, it’s going to be an inside look behind the curtain at Levels. More to come and thanks for being on this ride.

Ben Grynol: We’ve been through a lot of things here. You’ve taken us through this history of 2017, this journey of frontier biometric. And then we got up to 2020, this January 2020 period, when there was a bot, an SMS bot, and it was you and then it was David and then it was Mike D and then eventually that became product. John [Cruz 00:03:44] came on board as the first engineering hire. And that really made a difference in how the product was being approached. But then there was this period of continuous traction between January and July where things were happening, but July was really this turning point for traction.

Josh Clemente: The build… It was a fast moving six months, but at the same time, it felt very long because the whole world was kind of changing simultaneously. We actually started a raise process. We were considering what we needed to put together in February, and by March, Sam had many conversations via email with investors and we were queued up for a few meetings. We did have one or two, actually only one, in-person meeting with partners with the whole founding team in place. That’s actually one of the few times that the whole founding team has been in one location. But then obviously early March, COVID hits and everything changes. And it was in real time, we started to have to raise our eyebrows and think, “What is happening in the world? This is getting a little bit crazy.”

Josh Clemente: Obviously the fundraise process kind of dried up almost immediately. The investors just stopped responding to emails, obviously understandable given the uncertainty in what was going on. But I just remember March was a very uncertain month. Yet at the same time we saw no deceleration in interest in our products. In fact, things were accelerating. March, April, May were very strong months for us. I think May was a huge record, looking back in terms of revenue, wasn’t significant, but a huge record at the time. We had, I think, tripled month over month and people were starting to engage with us on Instagram and Twitter. We were getting these really cool signals that there’s something cool about what we’re doing. There’s resonance here. There’s a brand and people are using the first version of the app.

Josh Clemente: So all good signs and exciting, but then simultaneously the world is upside down. So we had kind of pulled back on the raise process and decided we’re just going to tighten the belt a little bit and extend our current cash for as long as possible. Keep burn low and focus on product and then just see what’s happening. And if we need to, we can try and raise around from existing investors or in angels or whatever we have to do. So we were just in this mode where it was, “All right, for the foreseeable future, through the summer, we’re in product mode. We’re not really going to grow, but we are going to keep burn as low as possible and stay very flexible.”

Ben Grynol: Have you thought about… July was this interesting period because, so you look back April, May, June, from a revenue standpoint, it was pretty clear growth. And even with the wait list, you can see this… it was good growth, but it was pretty incremental. In July, there was a ton of pickup on the wait list. That is one of the inflection points of it becoming exponential, and you start to see the hockey stick growth. But July is really, really interesting because it is relatively a year to the date of the juice cart incident. Not to dwell on it too much, but you went from end of May, start of June thinking that it was game over to a year later, there’s this exponential wait list and all this growth happening.

Josh Clemente: Yeah.

Ben Grynol: Have you thought about that?

Josh Clemente: Not a whole lot, actually. I remember blowing past my first year, the year from Levels incorporation date, which was the end of June and actually forgetting. It was just went by. Then I think it was David was saying, “Hey, I think the one year of the company is around now,” and that was a total shock to me. I was like, “How is that possible? That doesn’t make any sense.” And then since then, I haven’t really reflected on things other than the recognition that this is the third calendar year, January of 2021, hit New Year’s Eve. I was thinking, “Wow, this is the third calendar year that Levels is in existence and that I’ve been working on it.” I mean, obviously not chronological years, but the realization of that was pretty amazing. There were major milestone events that occurred in 2019 and here we are in ’21 and it just felt like that was kind of a significant realization, and definitely made me pause for a minute and just absorb how fast things are moving.

Ben Grynol: It’s so odd to think that we’re coming up on, so we’re still a little bit a ways away from June, we’re recording right now, it’s April 14th, 2021. And June, July, is only going to be two years.

Josh Clemente: Right.

Ben Grynol: It’s two years since the juice cart, two years since the incorporation. And you’re like, “That is not a lot of time,” but it also is a ton of time in the sense of, “Wow, there’s been a lot of progress.”

Josh Clemente: Yeah. The fact that Sam and I really only had that first conversation about what I was up to in, late May, 2019s, we aren’t even two years from that conversation. And so it is a totally mind-blowing paradigm shift. The conversations that we get to have every day with investors and members and potential partners and the biggest brands, in our space or any adjacent one, those conversations are just… It’s otherworldly. I don’t know how else to describe it. It feels like a Twilight Zone type of thing, where it’s status quo, this is the business operating conditions today. The rate of change to get here from there in such a short period of time, it’s like, “How did this not feel even crazier than it does?”

Ben Grynol: Yeah. It’s wild to think, “Oh, Joe Rogan or Oprah could use this product.” That is mind-boggling, but at the same time, it’s not unrealistic where you’re like, well… I try to think of it almost like the iPhone where in the early days of the iPhone, if you’re on that team, maybe a person would nerd out and be like, “Man, Oprah just got an iPhone. Can you believe it?” Now, it seems ridiculous, right?

Josh Clemente: Right.

Ben Grynol: You’re like, “Of course she uses an iPhone. Why would she not, everyone has an iPhone, it’s not that cool.” But that’s what it feels like. It feels very early where some of these figureheads, or these thought leaders, or people that we just look up to in the world, you start to have conversations with them. Or in Notion, we’ve got our aggregation of meeting notes. And you can see any meeting notes that you or Sam or Casey, anybody has talked to somebody in a day and you’re just like, “What? Lance Armstrong?” You’re like, “I guess.” You don’t question it, but it’s somebody that you look up to and it’s really meaningful. It’s really interesting.

Josh Clemente: Yeah. I mean, I think hitting that one year milestone and having the acceleration happening simultaneously, we were definitely in the thick of it right there. July, the conversations actually had started to pick back up with investors, but we had so much more, I think firepower on our side for those conversations, that by the time we hit August, we were back deep in the raise process. And that year went by quickly, but it was actually really important that we had that pause, that sort of spring summer timeframe to continue, I think finding our footing. Because we made so much progress over those few months. And I think the conversations with the same people, the same investors that we were talking to in March, had to have been staggered by the change in all of the numbers and the product. Between when we were talking to them, they shut down for COVID, and then when we reconvened, when they decided to start writing checks again towards the end of the summer, things were so different on paper for Levels.

Josh Clemente: That exponential curve was starting, and generally we were getting just so much traction organically, and in tech Twitter and such. So yeah, it was a very cool time. Very strange time. We were having so many troubles on the backside, like getting orders out the door to keep up, and processing revenue effectively. We were using all of these janky tools to do things still, and yet it was accelerating. So it was painful, but it was painful in that good way that you always hear about for startups, like good problems to have type painful. And we were always testing our assumptions like, “Is this just a fluke? Is it going to flicker out?” And it hasn’t yet.

Ben Grynol: That must have been interesting though, because, last summer July into August, things are ramping up, and the team is starting to think more about a raise. And anytime you go to raise money, you’re like, “Are we going to be able to raise?” Even if you think things are good, I think it’s natural to be like, “Well, I hope we can raise,” or like, “Are we going to be able to get the right people on our cap table, and raise the amount of money that we feel we need, at the right dilution to make sure that everything is good.” The reason that I ask is, the round was significant. The round is not anything to turn away from. It was objectively one of the largest seed rounds in 2020. It just was. There were a couple of other companies, and they happen to be Andreessen portfolio companies, but Clubhouse, Levels and Trove, or it was called Trove, those are the largest rounds done for seed rounds by a16z in 2020.

Josh Clemente: Yeah. Again then in the spring, when we had started the process initially, we were not looking to raise nearly that much. Quite a bit earlier in the product evolution, quite a bit earlier in the team size. And so that summer and spring of being able to continue to gather intel and get feedback and build features out and grow the wait list, was really huge for demonstrating to ourselves. And then also demonstrating for investors just how successful this venture could be, or at least what the early indications were. So I think that that combined with some non traditional fundraise techniques that we employed, specifically radical transparency and very, very high volumes of communication and update, I think gave an extraordinary amount of confidence to the investors we ended up raising from. They just were able to feel confidence in the team, I think first and foremost, which it’s obviously always the biggest component of an early stage raise. But I believe that we leaned in, obviously a ton of credit to Sam, but leaned in very hard on the very new paradigm of remote fundraising.

Josh Clemente: We just were like, “All right, this is going to be new, there’s going to be a lot of confusion. It’s going to be hard to close deals in this environment when we have never met many of these partners. And so we have to just be as transparent and as upfront and as proactively communicative as possible during this process,” which is what we did. And we felt a lot of confidence I think, because all the indicators were very good. People were saying like, “This is the most information we’ve gotten from anyone trying to raise lately,” or “That was the best data dump I’ve ever seen.” So those indicators were like, “All right, good. We’re doing the right things.”

Ben Grynol: How are you thinking about it? How did you feel when… 12 million bucks is a big round in, let’s call it a year, it was just over a year. But again, we got to keep reverting back to the 30th birthday at that point. You’re 31, but you revert back to that, and that is not that long a period of time to go from, “All right, it’s time to move on,” to, “I guess we’re raising 12 million bucks.”

Josh Clemente: Yeah. Very short period of time, all things considered. It was a really fun experience. Just, such an educational process and I’m lucky to have been able to just experience at all, let alone raising from some of the best in the business and on great terms. But throughout, it was really funny because there’s just so many priorities and tension with one another. During the raise process, we were migrating all of our order records, and really our customer management, or member management, from a series of disparate tools into our own database. And trying to transition the order process in the physician consultation network into a new EMR, and just a ton of massive tool changes necessary to continue to keep up with pace.

Josh Clemente: And there was one particular stretch, which was in July and August, where we were spinning up podcast efforts, we were migrating all of these operations requirements. This was before [Miz 00:16:56] had joined. And we were in the throes of the investor conversations, and it was just… Every day was, I don’t know, at least 10 hours of back-to-back, zero gaps, calls and conversations. In the meantime, at the front and end of that marathon, we’re trying to get customer orders migrated and work out bugs and missed orders, and communicate with customers. It was just mayhem. But the funny thing was just, I would get this profound sense of efficiency, where every conversation was oriented around getting as much information transmitted as quickly as possible, with the attempt or the goal of ending the conversation early, with all parties fully satisfied and having all the information they need, so that I could gain five minutes back to jump into the database and fix a problem.

Josh Clemente: I remember it being a surreal moment because I was talking to some really important, very, very successful people and it was all business. It was just, jump in, get it done, jump out, get to work. That transition as well, which is a very… It’s a nuance, but the very first time I took an important VC call, I was just so stressed out and sweating bullets and trying to memorize lines and all that stuff. And then from there to late in the process, I felt like a veteran already. And I don’t know, hard to say, I’m obviously not a veteran, but it was just, your psychology adapts to your priorities. I think in the back of my mind, the most important thing was getting those orders out and making sure that that process was still moving. Maybe in some way that also came across in the conversations, to the investors, where they could tell that things were tense in a good way. We were operationally overloaded in a very good way.

Josh Clemente: And I actually remember, so just to jump forward a little bit, the process was a good one, fairly quick all things considered, we had decided to move forward. We really wanted to close terms with a16. And I remember the night that it happened, Sam and I were on a call. We talked to VJ and closed the terms. And I got up out of my desk after that closed, and it was late at night, I don’t even remember what time, stumbled into the bathroom and just saw myself in the mirror. I think I took a selfie actually, because I was like, “This is what it looked like to close that round.” And I just looked haggard. I mean, it looked like I hadn’t slept in three days. I was wearing just a big baggy shirt and bags under my eyes. It was not that glamorous, not going to pop champagne, just going to try and get some sleep. And it was just such a good feeling, it was very rewarding, but also it felt different than what you probably expect it to feel like.

Ben Grynol: Or maybe exactly the same, right?

Josh Clemente: Yeah, maybe.

Ben Grynol: You know it shouldn’t be easy. I think that maybe you’re framing it as like, “You close a round and everybody gives the cheers and you’re celebrating.” And instead you’re just like, “No, I just ran a marathon, of course I look this way.”

Josh Clemente: Yeah. I think in my mind, it was when you raise from the biggest and the best, it’s going to be a polished conference room and handshaking and congratulations and all these things. And in fact it was me in my bedroom with 10 empty cans of LaCroix piled up and having not shaved.

Ben Grynol: So then from the raise, the raise was super interesting because that was this other inflection point. There was July, and then the raise was October, but it was announced in November. So we’ll just say in that period, late fall period, there was a ton more momentum on tech Twitter, on Instagram, with publications. So a lot of media coming out talking about the raise and then that’s when Haney, so Mike Haney who’s Head of Content, he started around that time as well. And there were all of these factors that started compounding and it really brought a lot of momentum into present day.

Josh Clemente: Yeah. You mentioned Miz as well, he started up in September, Haney in October. And well, we unlocked a lot of operational capacity over the summer, just migrating off very poorly kludged together tools, into a uniform order and customer records database. That process was huge for unlocking kind of spare capacity, but we still didn’t have the team resources to make the best of it and scale effectively, and have a really strong member communications system in place. So Miz came in as our Head of Ops to take that on. That was a huge, huge improvement for the team. So organized, so effective. So that was big. Haney, like you said.

Josh Clemente: Casey had been handling a huge number, the clinical side, she’d been handling the press and PR and outreach for podcasts and podcasts themselves, and just all of this stuff was certainly stretching her thin as well. So Haney coming in and being able to take off the sort of strategy and more like the execution, I guess, was just getting executional cadence in place and being able to provide her with a really strong counterpart and backstop for all of the press and content. It came together at just the right moment, because when we did announce the raise, it was a really big deal. I had no idea how much attention that moment was going to get, and I certainly spent a few weeks just drowning and in email, and I had never recovered on LinkedIn from that raise. I’m still hundreds or maybe thousands of DMs behind on LinkedIn, and every once in a while I go in there and try and catch up and it’s just a hopeless case.

Josh Clemente: So yeah, we got a deluge and I think a number of things came together at once. Obviously a16, in and of themselves making a deal is really important, but then the fact that it was done in a remote environment post-COVID, the space itself, the indication, I think the vote of confidence in the future of biowearables was a really, really big one. To have a16 invest in something like this takes it from fringe and bio hackery and gives it such mainstream cache. And so I think that just resonated throughout healthcare and throughout the wearable industry and general tech scene, is really impressive. And we had luckily the team capacity to keep up and to make an announcement and a social media response that it merited.

Ben Grynol: Yeah. You could feel there was a lot of signaling. There always is with investments. When you have certain funds that a company is aligned with, it’s a big market signal, especially within the tech world. So TechCrunch will pick up and say, “Oh, this fund is backing this company,” and that becomes a signal to prospective talent, to other investors, to other companies. And I think when, I think Sam and I had connected, or maybe you and I had connected before this as well, I think we had, but we’ll call it before times like before times as in, before the raise was announced.

Ben Grynol: We had chatted for maybe, I don’t know if it was like a week or a few weeks, or whatever it was, but you could feel, just based on Friday forums alone, you could feel the difference. You could see it in numbers. You could feel it in what was being said, where it was like, “Wow, there’s a lot of attention to what’s going on.” And even you saying now like, “Yeah, I got.” I remember you saying on a forum, I was watching as a viewer, I remember you saying like, “The number of emails I’ve gotten from people, whether it was friends congratulating me or other people inquiring about, ‘Are you guys growing your team?’” It was just one of those things, it was exponential. And you were like, “I can’t keep up.” I remember you saying some comment like that.

Josh Clemente: Yeah.

Ben Grynol: But that was a major, major inflection point. And then take it into January of this year. So January ’21, you did a nice recap at the beginning of the year saying like, “Wow, look at all this stuff that happened.” In between January and now, I guess we’re into Q2. It’s just been this continuous momentum. And we’re trying to keep the pace up, we’re trying to keep the velocity up and get launched. So it’s interesting what’s happening in the space. It’s interesting what’s happening from a company perspective, and from a team perspective, how we’re all trying to push it as hard as we can to make sure that things can get launched.

Josh Clemente: Yeah. The signaling power of that raise still blows my mind, and it really was way beyond our expectations in terms of validating the company, validating the mission statement. And I think just generally bringing attention, just the pure impressions power was amazing. And so obviously we had high hopes and when we were closing the deal, we were just optimistic that this was going to be a turning point. We were seeing so much progress on all the important stuff, all the business fundamentals of having a wait list with willingness to pay, and members who were giving us great NPS responses and all those sort of pieces. But having that big validation moment, we hoped would obviously boost the signal and it totally beat my expectations many times over. We’re certainly riding that wave. I mean, that will continue to be a part of obviously the Level’s story going forward. And it’s kind of hard to tease out where that signal boost ends. I don’t think it does. It’s a permanent part of our brand now.

Josh Clemente: So when we have conversations, it’s in the context of this is a validated organization, raising from a16, and not to mention the sort of litany of investors who came on to the cap table as part of our safe round and pre-seed and seed round, we’ve now really landed. And so looking at how that carried through to press coverage, we’re now sitting here and Levels has been covered in the New York Times, and had a full spread in Men’s Health, has been discussed in Washington Post, Wall Street Journal. It’s bizarre to say those words. And I don’t think those words happen without that raise going as it did, the scale of it specifically from home, timing, all of that.

Josh Clemente: And so it’s brought knock on effects that we’re going to continue to benefit from. Whether it’s just from exposure for future members finding us, or team, just the team growth has been phenomenal. You and I were, just before recording this conversation, talking about some of our recent team additions and just how out of the ballpark amazing they are and how the team continues to get better. I think all of this is, it’s all one thread. It’s all connected. None of these happens without the other, I don’t think.

Ben Grynol: Were your expectations different? In the way that you framed the signaling of a16z, were they different because of, maybe the lens through which you looked at fundraising previously, where it was almost… Did it exceed your expectations because of not being as immersed in the fundraising environment, or what was sort of the outlook on it? The reason I ask is, in the world of VC nerd world, there are certain funds that if a company raises from, I think anybody who follows the VC nerd world is like, “Oh, XYZ is part of that round.” That is a strong signal and the implications of it are this, and the reason I think that is because I’ve seen this happen 10 times before. Do you kind of know what I’m getting at? Where it’s like-

Josh Clemente: Yeah, you’re nailing it. For me, my background is, it’s in VC startup world, but it’s in a very, I think different corner of it, like SpaceX and Tesla and all of these big hardware companies. They raise VC money, but the signal that I as a mechanical engineer look for is, did they make it to orbit? Or like, who is running their technical team? You know what I mean?

Ben Grynol: Yeah.

Josh Clemente: This is my own industry change and education experience to come up to speed on how things work here. Of course, I know a16z and I know companies that they’ve been investing in, and I know all about their thesis and how successful they’ve been. But for some reason I underestimated the degree to which that would be an accelerant for a company like ours, which is, we’re not moving atoms, we’re moving bits and bytes, and how quickly… I think ultimately what it’s about is the difference between an idea spreading, and kind of an immobile milestone having to happen, something like getting to orbit for SpaceX.

Josh Clemente: It doesn’t matter how excited people get, it doesn’t improve the likelihood that you get to orbit, really, or at least it didn’t feel that way. Whereas with Levels, we need to grow the team effectively and build a product that’s going to change the future of metabolic health. And you can very rapidly change the likelihood of that happening by making an announcement that you raised from a company like a16z, and getting the attention of the individual who will enter the organization and be instrumental in making that happen. And because it is software and data science and member experience, and these types of components that our iteration time can be so much better than hardware, I think I just underestimated how fast that shift can happen and how much of it is the spread of ideas. Does that make sense?

Ben Grynol: Yeah, I think it probably… You can sort of take it in any direction, and apply it to all these categorical things. So you saying, “Oh, as a mechanical engineer, I care about who’s leading the team,” that’s a signal. And take this, if Don Valentine gave you the nod in VC, that was a big signal.

Josh Clemente: Mm-hmm (affirmative).

Ben Grynol: In perpetuity, it always was. If you’re in music and Bob Rock is like, “Hey, I’m producing your record,” well Bob Rock is ACDC, is Bon Jovi, is Shania Twain, keep naming people. That’s the signal. And I think you’d take this if, Neil deGrasse Tyson, right? Just name some category, that’s the nod. And that’s the interesting thing, and it’s kind of like one would know if Neil deGrasse Tyson gave you a nod on something related to astrophysics. You’d be like, “Well, I know that’s good,” but then if you have a limited lens of that world, you might look at it and be like, “I knew it was going to be good. I did not know it was going to be that.”

Josh Clemente: Exactly. I think that’s what it comes down to is… Sam and I talked a lot about the signaling component of the raise and how important it would be. And I totally agreed that it’s important that we excel in this raise process and that we close a really top name fund, but looking back on it, I did not have the context for how important it was actually. I knew that it was important, and I’m raising the money and having the runway was top of mind. But what I didn’t quite grasp was how much we could have left on the table. You know what I mean?

Josh Clemente: If we hadn’t been able to close a16, it’s really challenging to tell where would we be right now. How much of this delta between late summer last year and now is due to some of that signal boost, and being able to get the attention of people earlier than we otherwise would have, and all of this stuff again is squishy and blends together. And it’s tough to be able to tease it apart, but all I can say is that it was certainly rocket fuel for the trajectory we were on.

Ben Grynol: Yeah, and it’s easy to understand why people can say, “Well, raising is raising, it doesn’t mean anything. Comes down to execution.” That is very much a reality. There is nothing guaranteed about startups. The failure rate is extremely high and you always have to ask yourself, “Why would you even do that?” The probability of success is so low. And when you actually get down to… You start to define, what is success? Not just, we are alive or we are not alive. It is, do you get to a meaningful place where you’re able to actually solve the problem you’re trying to solve? Did you set out and were you able to achieve the thing that you’re trying to do? For us, it’s solving the metabolic health crisis. And that’s this massive global endeavor that just seems like it’s Sisyphean in every endeavor, every approach we take. It’s very, very hard. But when it comes down to execution, it’s April. Where are we headed?

Josh Clemente: Well, just to wrap up the VC conversation there real quick. I think that to some extent, it’s absolutely true that it all comes down to execution. But along the way, a very important way point… And not all teams need to raise from a top name fund in order to be successful, we’ve seen that a thousand times. But a really strong way point validation, and I think unlock, is that moment. We were able to achieve that, and I think that provides morale, support for the existing team, validation of the existing concept. But also, as we touched on, it provides intangible and tangible resources that you can tap again and again and again. And that’s where we are right now is that we’re still riding that wave of credibility and validation.

Josh Clemente: And as we’re heading into 2021, which I think is going to be… Other than the zero to one of just starting the company and getting our first customer and all of that extremely first moments sort of process, this year is going to be the most important for the company, thus far obviously. And I think for potentially the lifetime, 2021 is the year that Levels is going to really break out. And the words mainstream I think are going to be thrown around by the end of this calendar year, because there’s so much raw pent up demand and need for this. And we are approaching the operational and sort of team environment necessary to really open the floodgates and start growing for the first time, which obviously is a whole new phase of a company. And so that’s where we’re heading. We’re heading towards, I think the year that will be definitional for the future. And those that look closely, we’ll talk about the a16 raise and the key hires and all the stuff that happened prior to 2021. But 2021, I think is going to be a defining year for us.

Ben Grynol: You should go get back to email or cleaning your apartment or whatever you’re going to do.

Josh Clemente: All of the above.

Ben Grynol: All of the above. Go spin on your Peloton.

Josh Clemente: Got that done this morning.