One CEO’s 81 pound weight loss using glucose monitoring (Betsy McLaughlin & Casey Means)

When you’re a high-profile CEO, it can be easy to rely on easy meals and ignore workout. That was decidedly not the case for Betsy McLaughlin, former CEO of Hot Topic and board member for companies like Everlane and BARK. Despite being busy, Betsy would work out religiously and eat a healthy, plant-based diet. The problem was, she wasn’t losing weight. But after testing out Levels, she has a breakthrough. In this episode, she shared her journey with Casey Means, co-founder and Chief Medical Officer of Levels.

What do you do when no diet works?

Betsy had tried almost every diet and exercise routine imaginable, with almost no results. The battle was compounded when she was diagnosed with cancer.

I think I’ve been on every diet you can imagine. I’m very disciplined. And so it wasn’t as if I couldn’t follow what was being asked. I exercise, I actually had a treadmill as a desk when I turned 42. So I was standing all day and walking one to two miles per hour all day, including during meetings, and still I was unable to drop weight. So I’ve kept at it, because I thought there’s got to be an answer to this. I’ve just not found it. And I think for the 20 years, between 40 and basically 60 years old, anything that anybody threw my way, any specialist that was doing something different, I engaged and did not work. Well, at 54 years old, I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer and went through the process of surgery and then also five years of treatment. And one of the things they tell you when you go on extended treatment is that the drugs work against you, especially as it relates to metabolism. Part of it is what happens with your joint health, you tend to become less active, you tend to not pay as much attention to what you’re eating. And even if you do, you see this gradual weight gain.

The breakthrough moment with Levels

Betsy’s expectations were low when she decided to test Levels. But the feedback immediately illustrated that her go-to food choices simply weren’t working for her metabolism.

I came into this, I wouldn’t really say cocky, but I came in thinking, I’m not really sure what this is going to teach me because I’ve already taken out anything that I believe has any negative impact on your insulin levels. I had not had fast food for 20 years. I don’t drink sodas. I have very little processed sugar. I’d gone through all of this. These habits had all been established during the 20 years that I was trying to figure out what was happening with my metabolism. And every specialist that came in, took me off of something. If they weren’t taking me off of grains, they were taking me off of sugar or they were taking me off of anything but water during the day. So I had made some of these adjustments already. So my glucose monitor goes in. And over the first two weeks, actually over the first, I would say three or four days, I was shocked because the first meal I had was a boiled sweet potato, and my glucose shot up to, I think, 180 or 190, which was nuts and stayed there for three hours. And I just remember thinking, “Did I eat something that I didn’t know I ate? Or there’s some secret in here. Did something go into this sweet potato?” I was just really, really shocked. And then I had some quinoa and the same thing happened. And then I had lentils the next day and the same thing happened. And it became very clear to me that I had made all of my food choices on issues other than glucose or insulin.

Curating a list of 30 foods

After a test period with her original diet, Betsy identified a small group of foods that were glucose-friendly for her and stuck with them. The results were dramatic.

By the end of October, I actually had a list of the 30 foods that did not spike me. And I made a commitment to myself that I would for one month only eat those 30 foods. And in the meantime I would research what else I could do or is there a second level to this as opposed to just knowing food on its own? And so I ate the 30 foods. And within the first month dropped, I think, 15 pounds. no change in exercise. I just changed what I was eating. And I was shocked. Everybody around me was shocked. Doctor was like, “Okay, this is great, but remember, your first month could be water. Let’s see how it adjusts.” And as you said, Casey, I’m around a loss of 80 pounds. Actually, I hit that, I think seven months in. And when I went to have my checkup and run all the numbers again, usually you get the text from the guys who run your blood that say, “Your numbers are there, you can look them up.” I received a text from my internist who just said, “Holy shit! I’ve never seen anything like this.” It was crazy.

There’s no recipe for health

Betsy’s journey with health and wellness has taught her that even the most proven “formulas” for health will simply not work for everyone.

It didn’t matter if the doctor was in Europe or if the doctor was in Asia or the doctor was here in the US, there’s a program that everybody believes if you follow, this is what will happen. And there are many of us who don’t fall into those categories. And so what am I told to do? I’m told to make sure I exercise three times a week. Okay, I exercise six times a week. Okay, you need to get your heart rate above X amount for 20 minutes. Okay, I do that. Okay, you have to do 10,000 steps. Okay, I do that. All right. What’s next? Well, you should cut out meat. Have you considered a plant based diet? Oh, I’ve been on a plant based diet for three years. How much alcohol do you drink? Oh, I stopped drinking alcohol. Okay, how much processed sugar do you have? Oh, I stopped that 20 years ago. And then everybody just goes, “We have no idea. We don’t know what to tell you.” I think in most cases they think I’m not telling the truth. They think I have decided in my mind that I’m eating plant based, but I’m really not. They’ve decided that yes, I may say I don’t have fast food, but at 11:00 at night, I must be running out to Taco Bell. I don’t eat processed sugar, but I must have a cocktail every once in a while. So there’s this, you get a bit discounted because the belief is, if you did all of these other things, this wouldn’t be a problem. That’s what our science and our history tells us. And that’s not true.

Let food take a backseat

Betsy loves to cook, but she temporarily let food go 100% boring, eating a very specific diet as she experimented.

When you’re not thinking about food all the time, I think you eat less, to be honest. If I’m going to have three hard boiled eggs and some almonds and some string cheese as my lunch and a salad, two cups of lettuce basically, as a salad, it doesn’t really excite me to do that. But I’m also not thinking about food an hour before I have to do it and I’m not thinking about food an hour after I ate it. So it put me into a process that said, “Listen, what you’re eating is really important.” You want your body to certainly start working at a more optimum level, but you don’t have to think about it all the time and where you pride yourself at being so creative of a cook. We’re going to take that out for the short term, and then we’ll bring that back. And I said that to myself over and over again. This is only temporary, let’s just be really clear and have more of a pure diet.

The freedom of food pairing

Using Levels taught Betsy that she could indeed enjoy carbs and wine when eaten in moderation and in the right order.

I started to play with combinations and see if, like I said, if you eat protein first. Interestingly enough, one glass of red wine, so didn’t spike me. And one glass of red wine combined with some carbs, keeps the carbs down for me. And so I could actually have two little fingerling potatoes with a couple of sips of red wine and my glucose would stay okay. But I was very prescriptive about it. And I was taking so many notes, because I became my own science project, is what happened. And I don’t think that has to happen, but again, I spent how many decades trying to unlock what the mystery was. And now that I finally had an opening into this, I just became incredibly curious.

Levels is (almost) a silver bullet

Rule number one of dieting is that there are no magic formulas. But Levels has proven as close to a “silver bullet” as anything that Betsey has ever tried.

I think we as humans are always looking for the silver bullet. I think we’re willing to work to a certain extent, but we’re not really willing to change our lives completely. We have a lot going on. I will say, this is the closest thing to a silver bullet that I’ve seen as it relates to understanding and being able to make an impact. It doesn’t require you going into the doctor on a regular basis. It just requires you. The app is done in such a way where you learn very quickly. And I’m just a firm believer that education is the beginning of all of this. We have to educate first. Nobody believes anything unless they’ve actually heard it multiple times. And we know that from affecting any systemic change, you have to start with constant education over and over and over again.

Levels can teach something to everyone

The educational component of Levels has helped Betsy and her friends get unique insights that will stay with them for the rest of their lives.

I think I have shared Levels with, I want to say maybe 15 people at this point and to a person, there’s not a single person that has not learned something from it that they believe will impact the rest of their lives. And these are not all people that need to lose weight. And these are not unhealthy people. These are just people who are interested in what else can I do? And Levels has taught them something that they can do. And even though they don’t continue with levels, they have changed their lifestyle to be able to adapt to whatever Levels has said. They learned from the Levels process.

Betsy McLaughlin:
When I was diagnosed and when I started the treatment, I promised myself I would not change my exercise regimen at all and that I would continue to be dedicated to exercising six days a week, doing weight training, doing cycling. I had retired in 2011 and had met an amazing guy by the name of Michael Stagg, who became my personal health coach. And he got me into a great routine to keep me healthy.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And then the cancer happened. And we continued to be in that routine, despite the fact that there were many mornings I didn’t even want to get out of bed because I was in so much pain, but I did it anyway. Despite the fact that I continued my exercise and actually amped it up, I actually started exercising harder and longer and more thoughtfully. I still gained weight. And I was just beside myself that over this course of time, I was going to yet put on probably tens of pounds. Still felt relatively healthy, but felt like I just didn’t have control over what was going on.
Ben Grynol:
I’m Ben Grynol, part of the early startup team here at Levels. We’re building tech that helps people to understand their metabolic health. And this is your front row seat to everything we do. This is A Whole New Level.
Ben Grynol:
Everyone has a different path into Levels. That being the members, the community, people who are using the product as of today, being in the private beta that we are. And for some people, it’s a serendipitous path, a lifelong journey to using a CGM or discovering what this continuous glucose monitor can do for them. For others, it is finding out through a friend, sometimes through a social platform, something like Twitter or Instagram, they’ll see other people posting content about it.
Ben Grynol:
Well, for Betsy McLaughlin, she had a lifelong journey with health and a storied professional career, something that she and Dr. Casey Means got into in this episode. And so no need to wait, here’s Casey with the intro.
Dr. Casey Means:
I am so excited to introduce Betsy McLaughlin. She has an incredible professional history and has been a Levels member for about a year and has an incredible health journey that we’re going to be talking about today. So a little bit out Betsy. She has held a number of executive leadership roles in many different areas of retail, including being the former president and CEO of Hot Topic, a role that she held until 2011. She was the senior vice president of merchandising and marketing at Hot Topic during their IPO in 1996. And under her leadership, Hot Topic grew from 16 stores in 1993 to more than 800 stores in 50 states and Puerto Rico.
Dr. Casey Means:
She is now on the board of several companies, many of which are some of my favorite consumer brands, including GOOD AMERICAN, Everlane and BARK. And has previously held board positions at companies, including Veggie Grill and Pinkberry. Betsy has received many awards for her leadership and strategy, including being recognized as one of the best CEOs in America. And under her leadership, Hot Topic was named one of Fast Company’s most innovative companies and Fortune’s best companies to work for. As I mentioned, she’s a long time Levels member, has an incredible and inspiring health journey with the program. And we’re going to dig into all of that today. Welcome to A Whole New Level, Betsy.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Thank you, Casey. Happy to be here.
Dr. Casey Means:
So you have gone through a lot in this last year, losing 81 pounds since September 2020, something that so many people hope to do, but very few accomplish. So I’d love for you to walk us through your health journey prior to September 2020 when you made some new changes and what your health goals had been and tactics you’d tried previously to achieve them?
Betsy McLaughlin:
Sure. Well, I was not blessed with favorable metabolic genetics. So I have struggled with weight my entire life, through elementary school, junior high, high school, yo-yo dieting. It’s very tough to be a teenager and be overweight. So I think my first loss of 40 pounds happened when I was 13 years old using the Weight Watchers program. But as my life went on, you try to work around things, you recognize you’re never going to be the thinnest person in the room. You get educated on what truly is important and what isn’t important. And I’d always been very athletic. So I had the benefit of having, I think, a good muscle structure.
Betsy McLaughlin:
But as I got into career and recognized that I was traveling quite a bit, I was eating out quite a bit, I was under great stress, maybe not consciously, but certainly as I look back now, subconsciously. I realized that it wasn’t just my weight, but there were things that change in your body as you age. And as you go through and do all your testing and you realize that, “Gee, okay, it is the cholesterol creeping up. And what’s happening with my heart health? And what’s happening with my weight?” And so I recognized probably right around 40 that the upward direction of all of these numbers, I obviously was not able to control and that I needed to get my arms around it. And I was very lucky that I had the means to be able to go to doctors and trainers. And I went through many nutritionists and used some overseas doctors who were doing some experimental work to try to figure out what was happening with my metabolism.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I think I’ve been on every diet you can imagine. I’m very disciplined. And so it wasn’t as if I couldn’t follow what was being asked. I exercise, I actually had a treadmill as a desk when I turned 42. So I was standing all day and walking one to two miles per hour all day, including during meetings, and still I was unable to drop weight. So I’ve kept at it, because I thought there’s got to be an answer to this. I’ve just not found it. And I think for the 20 years, between 40 and basically 60 years old, anything that anybody threw my way, any specialist that was doing something different, I engaged and did not work.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Well, at 54 years old, I was diagnosed with stage three breast cancer and went through the process of surgery and then also five years of treatment. And one of the things they tell you when you go on extended treatment is that the drugs work against you, especially as it relates to metabolism. Part of it is what happens with your joint health, you tend to become less active, you tend to not pay as much attention to what you’re eating. And even if you do, you see this gradual weight gain.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Well, when I was diagnosed and when I started the treatment, I promised myself I would not change my exercise regimen at all, and that I would continue to be dedicated to exercising six days a week, doing weight training, doing cycling. I had retired in 2011 and had met an amazing guy by the name of Michael Stagg, who became my personal health coach. And he got me into a great routine to keep me healthy. And then the cancer happened. And we continued to be in that routine despite the fact that there were many mornings I didn’t even want to get out of bed, because I was in so much pain, but I did it anyway.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Despite the fact that I continued my exercise and actually amped it up, I actually started exercising harder and longer and more thoughtfully. I still gained weight. And I was just beside myself that over this course of time, I was going to yet put on probably tens of pounds. I knew this was happening. I could see it because I knew what my background was. And I could also see over the first year and a half, what was happening. I was still moving around, still felt relatively healthy, but felt like I just didn’t have control over what was going on.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And Michael actually is the person who introduced me to Levels. And he said, “Listen, I know that you don’t register as a diabetic, I know you’ve probably never measured your glucose other than going and getting your point in time reading, but this is something that I think is one of the only things you have not looked at in detail to address your metabolic health. And it hasn’t been on the market before, this is really revolutionary and it is a wearable.” And I’m like, “I have to put it in my arm, it has to stay in my arm.” And he said, “Yes, but you can’t see it, it’s really not invasive.”
Betsy McLaughlin:
And I was a bit skeptical, but he brought it over. He literally brought it over and stuck it in my arm. I’ll tell you how important that day was. It was October 4, 2020. It is the day that changed my life. And I didn’t know it was the day that was going to change my life, but clearly now, I think for the rest of my life I will remember October 4, 2020. And I put it in. And what he said to me, which was really interesting is that just continue to do what you’re doing for two weeks. Just want you to monitor and eat, and let’s just see what’s happening with your glucose. And I, of course, was on the… I don’t have a glucose problem. I don’t have an insulin problem. I don’t have a diabetic problem. I’ve watched this. My dad has diabetes, so I’m a little sensitive to it, but I’ve been crazy about this my life, because I don’t want to be a diabetic.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And sure enough, this monitor went on. And I had also, by the way, once I was diagnosed with cancer, decided I was going on a plant based diet. I was going to eliminate all meat and all alcohol. So at the point in time where I put the monitor on, I had been plant based for almost four years. And I thought I was doing the greatest ever. I was eating quinoa and brown rice and sweet potatoes. I was eating sweet potatoes steamed and then put in the refrigerator so they were cold. And I would eat them like apples. I was eating very, very clean tofu. I was eating gluten free soy sauce, Tamari.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So I was doing all of these things that I thought were just the silver lining in the cancer was that I had transitioned my nutrition to be plant based. So I came into this, I wouldn’t really say cocky, but I came in thinking, I’m not really sure what this is going to teach me because I’ve already taken out anything that I believe has any negative impact on your insulin levels. I had not had fast food for 20 years. I don’t drink sodas. I have very little processed sugar. I’d gone through all of this. These habits had all been established during the 20 years that I was trying to figure out what was happening with my metabolism. And every specialist that came in, took me off of something. If they weren’t taking me off of grains, they were taking me off of sugar or they were taking me off of anything but water during the day. So I had made some of these adjustments already.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So my glucose monitor goes in. And over the first two weeks, actually over the first, I would say three or four days, I was shocked because the first meal I had was a boiled sweet potato, and my glucose shot up to, I think, 180 or 190, which was nuts and stayed there for three hours. And I just remember thinking, “Did I eat something that I didn’t know I ate? Or there’s some secret in here. Did something go into this sweet potato?” I was just really, really shocked. And then I had some quinoa and the same thing happened. And then I had lentils the next day and the same thing happened.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And it became very clear to me that I had made all of my food choices on issues other than glucose or insulin. It was all about what the plant based diet said to have or what I thought in my mind was good for me. And after about two weeks and almost everything that I had been eating spiking my levels, and not just spiking them up and down, but spiking them in these, I call them the scary domes that last for five hours, you eat dinner and it goes up and then it just never comes down till 3:00 AM in the morning and then it crashes. And then work your way back up to normalcy.
Betsy McLaughlin:
It was happening every single day. And it was great intellectual process for me, in addition to the emotional, what the hell just happened? But I thought, “My gosh! You mean I have been doing this for decades trying to figure out what the issue is. This has been the issue all along. Nobody has made a comment to me about insulin levels, because I haven’t registered in the diabetes or threat of diabetes land.” And so had I known this as much as I watched my cholesterol and as much as I was watching my heart rate, had I known this, I would’ve been 20 years ahead, but this wasn’t available then.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So that’s what shifted. So two weeks. And then after two weeks, I was very… At that point in time, I went back and looked at the Levels’ directions and read everything I was supposed to do, because of course, I went into this thinking, “Oh yeah, I’ll put it on. I’ll figure this out for myself.” And I was like, “Oh my gosh! Okay. I got to log everything. I need to make my list. I need to do the most…” The amazing thing was when I did the juxtaposition, there’s a list that comes that says, “Try brown rice versus white rice, try X versus Y.” And I went through most of that list, because now, I was just curious of all the food that I eat on a regular basis, how does it work? What does it do to me?
Betsy McLaughlin:
And it became just a fascinating journey. By the end of October, I actually had a list of the 30 foods that did not spike me. And I made a commitment to myself that I would for one month only eat those 30 foods. And in the meantime I would research what else I could do or is there a second level to this as opposed to just knowing food on its own? And so I ate the 30 foods. And within the first month dropped, I think, 15 pounds. And-
Dr. Casey Means:
Oh my gosh!
Betsy McLaughlin:
…no change in exercise. I just changed what I was eating. And I was shocked. Everybody around me was shocked. Doctor was like, “Okay, this is great, but remember, your first month could be water. Let’s see how it adjusts.” And as you said, Casey, I’m around a loss of 80 pounds. Actually, I hit that, I think seven months in. And when I went to have my checkup and run all the numbers again, usually you get the text from the guys who run your blood that say, “Your numbers are there, you can look them up.” I received a text from my internist who just said, “Holy shit! I’ve never seen anything like this.” It was crazy.
Betsy McLaughlin:
My A1C went from 6.1 to 5.2. My glucose went from the high 117 to 84. My insulin went from 30 to five. It was nuts. And I became an evangelist for Levels. I think I’ve turned on more of my friends who also have had issues either with metabolism or just having trouble losing weight, just to understand how this all works. And it really is a game changer for me. And I’m so grateful that Michael introduced me to Levels, because I know I would still be struggling right now. And who knows where you are when you continue to gain weight as you get older? But I am very grateful for Levels being in my life. And I keep it on now. I still have it. I still have 60 pounds I would like to lose in addition where I am. I’ve plateaued a bit. And so I’ve had to shake it up a little, but I’m very happy that I have my friend on my arm all the time to both keep me honest and to inform me on a regular basis how my body is doing.
Dr. Casey Means:
Wow. Thank you for sharing all of that, Betsy. And it’s really an incredible and inspiring story and really a Testament to how we can be working really hard and really disciplined and doing all the right investments, nutrition, exercise, getting a great team on board and yet, if it’s not what’s right for our body or what our body really needs, we may be not seeing the results we want.
Dr. Casey Means:
I’m curious about your experience prior to October of last year, because you just mentioned some of your lab changes that were really profound shifts, going from essentially a pre-diabetic A1C to a totally normal A1C, a pre-diabetic fasting glucose to a totally normal healthy range fasting glucose. I think also you had shared with me your labs, your triglycerides basically were cut in half, insulin dropping 30 to five. So very elevated to a totally normal range. And even liver function tests plummeting. It’s incredible.
Dr. Casey Means:
But now in retrospect, looking back at those labs from September 2020, had anyone told you, “There’s a problem here, we’re on the spectrum of metabolic dysfunction and we need to get on top of the glucose and the insulin and all these things?” What had been the messaging from doctors when you were in those ranges?
Betsy McLaughlin:
Well, I think there was concern that the glucose was rising. There was concern that I was pre-diabetic. Just nobody had answers, because the answers were lifestyle. It’s a default that, okay, these are numbers, and in order for you to get these numbers in order, you need to follow this program. And it didn’t matter if the doctor was in Europe or if the doctor was in Asia or the doctor was here in the US, there’s a program that everybody believes if you follow, this is what will happen.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And there are many of us who don’t fall into those categories. And so what am I told to do? I’m told to make sure I exercise three times a week. Okay, I exercise six times a week. Okay, you need to get your heart rate above X amount for 20 minutes. Okay, I do that. Okay, you have to do 10,000 steps. Okay, I do that. All right. What’s next? Well, you should cut out meat. Have you considered a plant based diet? Oh, I’ve been on a plant based diet for three years. How much alcohol do you drink? Oh, I stopped drinking alcohol. Okay, how much processed sugar do you have? Oh, I stopped that 20 years ago. And then everybody just goes, “We have no idea. We don’t know what to tell you.”
Betsy McLaughlin:
And I will say that I think in most cases they think I’m not telling the truth. They think I have decided in my mind that I’m eating plant based, but I’m really not. They’ve decided that yes, I may say I don’t have fast food, but at 11:00 at night, I must be running out to Taco Bell. I don’t eat processed sugar, but I must have a cocktail every once in a while. So there’s this, you get a bit discounted because the belief is, if you did all of these other things, this wouldn’t be a problem. That’s what our science and our history tells us. And that’s not true, because one of the things I have found too, as I’ve gone through Levels is that it’s now that I know what foods I can eat, there are foods that previously from October of last year on that I would not eat, but now I can eat if I eat them in the right order.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I eat my protein first and then I have a carb. It absorbs much better for me. Nobody ever went through that with me. If somebody had said and made it an intellectual exercise for me to say, okay, let’s look at your glucose or let’s look at, whatever, and let’s figure out the problem, the puzzle, because I think our bodies are all puzzles that we need to figure out how they get put together. And they all get put together very, very differently. That might have been helpful, but that’s not the way the medical profession works. And again, you get lots of data and you build your hypothesis based on the mass results. And one of the things that Levels does is it’s personal. No one’s going to have the same levels of readings as you have. No one’s going to have the same program if you’re able to develop your own program on your own. But yeah.
Betsy McLaughlin:
But it was very, very frustrating. And actually I have an amazing internist and he said… He worked tirelessly. He turned me onto a liver specialist, because we looked at whether my liver was functioning correctly. Just trying to get at it in every way possible, but it kept coming back to, I somehow have a metabolic block and we can’t figure out.
Dr. Casey Means:
It’s so interesting. And something that comes to mind is that so many of the foods you were eating were healthy foods, sweet potatoes and lentils and tomatoes and garbanzo beans. And these things were spiking you through the roof. And what it really highlights I think is that the body handles different things in different contexts. So if your insulin is quite high and showing us that you’re fairly carb intolerant at that time, it may be a very different response than a year later when your insulin is five and you’re much more insulin sensitive. The way you’re processing those foods has actually dynamically shifted in your body, because of the change in physiology.
Dr. Casey Means:
And that’s so different than I think we’ve traditionally thought about nutrition, which is like food has inherent properties and that’s what it does. But that’s not the reality, you’re putting it into this complex context of the body that is dynamic. The microbiome as well is hugely dynamic. So it’s not just the insulin, but also what’s going on with the gut. And so it was fascinating to me to hear that some of these foods that you couldn’t necessarily eat without getting a massive glucose spike early on, you’re actually able to bring in again and now that you’re in a much different place metabolically.
Dr. Casey Means:
And so I’d be curious to drill in a little bit on how… You mentioned some of the foods that did not work for you at the beginning. How did you shift your diet during the process? What was the diet you landed on? And then how has that now evolved into where we are today? I’d love to hear a little bit more about the diet.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I realized I probably need to be very disciplined. Food is interesting, because if you’re eating three meals a day, and I’m a cook and I love food and I have chef friends, and most of my travel is built around culinary traditions of the countries that we go visit. And I just was concerned that if I gave myself too much latitude, I would not be able to remain disciplined. And so I also picked up fasting time feeding, where I would only eat two meals a day. I’m doing that right now actually. I don’t eat until 1:00 and I don’t eat any later than 6:00. So I only have a five hour window which I eat, which is just fine. And I started fasting one day a week for 24 hours. And then every month I would do a longer fast, a water fast between three or five days.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And so what that did was take food and make it a simple process for me as opposed to every day going to the farmer’s market or figuring out what am I going to cook tonight? What am I going to do that’s creative? And what cuisine do I want to cook? I had to remove all of that, certainly, initially, because I knew that if I wanted to do this and I wanted to test out the theory that I needed to be very, very disciplined. So I went down to my 30 foods, my 30 foods that didn’t spike me and had no problem with it. Actually, it was a very simple life. When you’re not thinking about food all the time, I think you eat less, to be honest. If I’m going to have three hard boiled eggs and some almonds and some string cheese as my lunch and a salad, two cups of lettuce basically, as a salad, it doesn’t really excite me to do that. But I’m also not thinking about food an hour before I have to do it and I’m not thinking about food an hour after I ate it.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So it put me into a process that said, “Listen, what you’re eating is really important.” You want your body to certainly start working at a more optimum level, but you don’t have to think about it all the time and where you pride yourself at being so creative of a cook. We’re going to take that out for the short term, and then we’ll bring that back. And I said that to myself over and over again. This is only temporary, let’s just be really clear and have more of a pure diet. I also happen to do it in the middle of COVID. And so normally where I would be going out to eat three or five or 10 times a week, I didn’t do that, because restaurant food, as any chef will tell you, always has hidden elements in it, whether it’s salt or whether it’s… You may ask a server if something has sugar in it, and they’ll tell you no, but oddly enough, there’s maple syrup or there’s agave or there’s some honey, it’s a big one that goes into most salad dressings even if it’s a vinegarette.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And so I had total control over what was going into my body. It was interesting that even with the fasting and with the very limited diet, I had more energy than I think I’ve ever had in my life. In fact, my workout started to go from one hour to two hours to some days when I had time, I’d add an extra hour. My weight training, I was able to, when I was doing exercises on the weight machines, easily able to increase my weight, easily able on cycling too my endurance increased. It was really, really crazy. And here I was with this limited diet and eating only five hours a day and still getting up at 6:00 in the morning and being able to ride two hours and feel absolutely fantastic before, during and after.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So I kept having this validation and the encouragement, because I was feeling so good. And here I was, I’m like, okay, well, this offsets the joy I get from making some complicated dish that’s probably not as good for me. This more than offsets it, because I’m just feeling terrific. And I stayed true to that routine, both the fasting and the levels diet, until about March of this year. And then I started to play with combinations and see if, like I said, if you eat protein first. Interestingly enough, one glass of red wine, so didn’t spike me. And one glass of red wine combined with some carbs, keeps the carbs down for me.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And so I could actually have two little fingerling potatoes with a couple of sips of red wine and my glucose would stay okay. But I was very prescriptive about it. And I was taking so many notes, because I became my own science project, is what happened. And I don’t think that has to happen, but again, I spent how many decades trying to unlock what the mystery was. And now that I finally had an opening into this, I just became incredibly curious.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So fast forward to today, again, like I said, I still have 60 pounds to lose. I’m certainly losing a lot slower. I lose about a pound a week, which is great and probably the healthiest thing that I can do. Here’s an example. It was my birthday last weekend and I love ice cream and I’ve gone a long time without ice cream and I wanted ice cream. And I had six tablespoons of ice cream. I counted the number of tablespoons I ate. I had six tablespoons of salt and straw ice cream, my very, very favorite. And I went to 115, from 90 to 115, and then came back down so fast. As you get into this, you realize it’s the domes that you fear and the spikes that if you can manage them are okay. And I was so happy. If anything just celebrated the entire past year, it was the fact that I could eat ice cream, spike up, spike down and be completely normal. And that was a celebration unto itself.
Dr. Casey Means:
Well, happy birth day. And what an amazing choice for the birthday! Some salt and straw ice cream. Salted caramel is probably one of my favorite things in the world. But yeah, how empowering to see going from the year before the dome to watching that insulin sensitivity at work with the up and then the right down, seeing that that insulin is taking up that glucose. That is amazing. And you are someone who has used other types of wearables and trackers. And being a lifelong athlete, you’ve used whoop and chronometer as well to track food. I’d be curious to hear more broadly how you think about wearables and what aspects of wearables and trackers have really helped with your journey aside from Levels, and how you see them fitting in more broadly with a larger, wider population and fitting into this metabolic disease epidemic that we’re dealing with?
Betsy McLaughlin:
I think it’s always good to have a report card and a real time report card. For so long, it’s been that you don’t get the report card until you go into the doctor and then you get the report card. And then you have, okay, here are the things you need to do. And then you do them for six months or a year, and then go back and get your report card. I’m a retailer. We get sales every day. We know every single day, whether what we are putting in front of our customers they like, they don’t like, they’re ambivalent about. And so I’m a little bit of a junkie as it relates to real time reporting.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And certainly with data and technology, I’ve gotten used to that in so much of my life. And so to me, this is an extension of that. I look at the whoop strap that I wear all the time, same arm as my Levels. And I want to know what my strain is every day, I want to know what my sleep is every morning that I wake up, I want to know what my resting heart rate is, I want to know what my HRV is, I want to know what my respiratory rate is. I didn’t know what was good before. And now through these wearables, I know what is optimal and I can work toward it.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And if you have a bad day, you have a bad day, but you still in your mind are able to rationalize and understand. And I think education is so important. And I don’t know that you really get good education unless you’re at it daily. And I think that’s true. I mean, we all know that from being in school, you go to school every single day, you’re in that process, you’re learning, your brain is opening up, you’re absorbing, you’re changing. I think that’s also very true with the wearables. I think if you only have it once a quarter, once a half year, once a year, it’s just not top of mind.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And so I find them incredibly useful to me. I’ve been through a lot of them. The whoop strap has been terrific, especially as it works with my fasting and with levels. Chronometer, I’ve done because I’ve wanted to understand my macros and how can I move around proteins and fats and carbs. And so I wish that there was more of it. I wish that there was blood pressure that you could get on a regular basis as opposed to having to take out the cuff, do the cuff, probably have it read you wrong time a day.
Betsy McLaughlin:
That’s the beauty of Levels or the beauty of a whoop is that as you change through the day, as your stress changes through the day, as you exercise, as you come down off of exercise, as you eat, as you fast, you’re able to get these real time reads. I don’t think there’s any replacement for them. I think if you really want to get to the root of a problem, you have to understand how your body is working 24/7. And this is the only thing that will allow you to do that.
Dr. Casey Means:
Absolutely. And I’m curious having used whoop and Levels together and working out so frequently, did the continuous glucose monitor have any impact on how you were shaping your workouts, what you were choosing to do for your workouts when you were working out? Did it have any impact on that side of things?
Betsy McLaughlin:
Well, yeah, it did. And my coach, Michael, is fanatical about this. Also a huge Level supporter and a whoop supporter. And so I was always doing early morning fasted training. And during high intensity workouts, my glucose would rise. And I didn’t want my glucose rising during long slow distance workouts. So we would use Levels to see how fast after I did hit training that my glucose would return to normal. And we tracked that. And it was very interesting, because as time went on, I returned to normal much quicker than I had when I started. And I still do that today. I just think it’s a good discipline to have to know how your body is reacting when you’re doing intense workouts versus these long steady workouts.
Dr. Casey Means:
Amazing. I feel like we already have so many great take home points from just hearing about your story. Some of the ones that I’m hearing you say is fasted workouts can be something positive. Fasting in general was an important part of your journey, protein before carbs, balanced meals and that some nutrient rich plant foods not work for your body at a certain state when we’re really carbon tolerant and that those actually may shift over time. So a lot of amazing take home points for people who may not be wearing a continuous glucose monitor, but this may resonate with them.
Dr. Casey Means:
So I’m curious, you had a very, I’m sure busy and intense career with all these executive roles that you held. And sometimes I think in those environments, wellness may not be top of mind every day. And I’m curious, how do you think people who are listening, who might be in the grind right now with work and building their careers can think about approaching health and nutrition and wellness in a way that keeps them on track during these busy years, maybe before their doctor is telling them that a problem has arise, but they may be early on the spectrum of developing some of these things? So is there anything you had wished you’d known earlier, implemented earlier during your career that would’ve been high yield things for your wellness journey?
Betsy McLaughlin:
I thought I knew… I always looked at food as the food relationship with body weight. Eat more food, gain weight, eat less food, lose weight, exercise more, calories in, calorie out. Very linear way of looking at food. And we’re all really busy people. And you come up with a couple of tenets that are going to control your life or help your life while you’re going through your career path. I wish that instead of taking food and coupling it with weight, I took food and coupled it with fuel and spent more time understanding how food fuels your brain, much of what people are doing with sleep now. There’s a lot of sleep research. Now, people are talking about sleep, because they’re talking about sleep and what it’s not just about feeling less tired, it’s about how it fuels your body.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I wish I would’ve spent more time understanding the connection between food and fuel. And I think when you’re in a state of stress, you already have inflammation and food can aggravate that inflammation. And understanding there are certain food that you can eat that will decrease the inflammation therefore decrease the stress, would’ve been incredibly helpful to me if I would’ve known this 20 years ago. And the benefits. We all know, because popular culture has adopted that you have to be active every day, don’t smoke, limit your alcohol, get sleep. These are all things that are very public and very understood.
Betsy McLaughlin:
But I think if insulin was brought into that and I would’ve understood insulin and inflammation and fuel and not fuel, as much as I understood don’t smoke, it’s bad for you, don’t drink every night, it’s bad for you, get sleep, it’s good for you. If the element of insulin was brought into that conversation and that narrative, I think it would’ve been a heck of a lot better for me, and I think for so many people. And it’s different in every person, just like sleep is different in every person and exercise is different in every person. It’s something you really need to understand yourself.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Unfortunately, until we can rotate the thinking and broaden the thinking, most people think that the only time you really have to worry about this is when you’re having a diabetic event. And that’s not the case, it is part of your body’s functioning. It’s everyone’s. Everyone needs it. You need insulin. And without having it work correctly in your body, everything else doesn’t work, much like sleep. And so I think it is as important. So that would be what I would say I wish I would’ve known. And I think that, anyone listening, if you do one thing, it’s to really understand the food fuel dynamic and to understand your own insulin.
Dr. Casey Means:
And you touched on the nature of the reactive mindset in our medical system that we wait until we’re in that diabetic state before we really start thinking about things and how that’s a flawed approach. The health is not black and white, it’s not an on-off switch that one day you don’t have Type II diabetes and the next you do. It’s much more of this gradual evolution that we miss the early parts of, because we’re not actually looking at it or testing it or giving people the tools to manage their own lives.
Dr. Casey Means:
And so I’d be curious, you have been an executive leader for decades. And thinking on the more systems level, based on your personal experience, but also your leadership experience, how do you conceptualize what we can extrapolate from your own personal experience to the broader population in terms of public health and systems level approaches to the metabolic disease epidemic? We have 128 million Americans now with pre-diabetes or Type II diabetes. 72% of US adults now with overweight or obesity. And I think it’s really interesting to hear from a very successful personal experience how you think about how we need to shift things on the bigger picture to really get at these.
Dr. Casey Means:
And one other comment I would just throw in is that just as a physician, I think something that I’ve seen to be a very damaging line of conversation is this idea that, oh, we shouldn’t focus on diet and lifestyle, because patients just aren’t going to do it. They’re going to be non-compliant. The word compliance is just such a yucky word this idea. And really your experience totally is like the poster child for why this is a ridiculous way of thinking, because people are trying, people are working hard, but if you’re doing the wrong thing for your body, if you’re not doing what works for your physiology, it’s not going to work.
Dr. Casey Means:
And a statistic that just kills me is 50% of US Americans go on a diet each year trying to lose weight. That means they made a commitment, they are trying, they want to put in the work. On some survey, they said they’re doing it and yet our country is getting heavier, our life expectancy is going down. So there’s an effort and an outcome mismatch. So just with all of that in mind, I’d just be curious about what you’ve been brainstorming in terms of thinking about the bigger picture of how we might take your experience and think about it in a more scalable way?
Betsy McLaughlin:
I think we as humans are always looking for the silver bullet. I think we’re willing to work to a certain extent, but we’re not really willing to change our lives completely. We have a lot going on. I will say, this is the closest thing to a silver bullet that I’ve seen as it relates to understanding and being able to make an impact. It doesn’t require you going into the doctor on a regular basis. It just requires you. The app is done in such a way where you learn very quickly. And I’m just a firm believer that education is the beginning of all of this. We have to educate first. Nobody believes anything unless they’ve actually heard it multiple times. And we know that from affecting any systemic change, you have to start with constant education over and over and over again.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Our healthcare system, as you said, is designed to address chronic illness versus rewarding prevention. It’s we wait till there’s a problem and then that’s what gets covered. And you can do that. If you’ve done any preventative work on your own insurance, usually doesn’t cover it. They’re getting better, but it’s much easier to get something covered that’s already happened and requires you to have a drug or have poison shot into your body. You can get that covered, but boy, you’re not going to get covered those things that will prevent that from happening.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So I think, again, going back to the education piece of it, is really important. Levels is very easy. I think it’s not a difficult application. It may stick a little filament into your arm. You don’t feel it. So there is no pain involved with it at all. In fact, the first time you put it in, you wonder if it actually went in, because it’s so easy to do. And I think there’s something that you can learn quickly. We also, as humans and especially modern humans, we have short attention spans. And the thing about Levels is that, boy, in one month’s worth of time, you can learn so much about yourself that you can apply. And if you do apply it, it can be the silver bullet.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And I’ve been through a lot of these diets that promised that. And that’s not the case. I think that this technology is still special. And I think as it gets wider acceptance, hopefully, I’m on the subscription, because I want to have it every month. And even though I know what I’m eating and I still want that report card. But I think the more people that have access to it and can try it, and the more… Boy, if I was running an assurance company and I wanted to get my chronic disease down, I’d probably supply Levels, because it’s the quickest way for somebody to figure out exactly how to control their insulin levels.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I think Levels is doing all the right things, but I think that we as Americans, not even Americans, as humans in general now, because technology has sped up the convenience timeline. And you order on Amazon. And now on Amazon, you order, if you don’t get it by that afternoon, you wonder whether they were out of the product. We just want everything quicker.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So, again, I think the thing about Levels is that, not an advertisement, I’m not paid by you guys, but I just will say that for people who have been struggling for a long time to try to figure it out and really have put the effort in… Listen, if you don’t want to put the effort in, don’t do it, don’t waste your time, don’t waste everybody else’s time. But there are, I believe… I don’t believe this non-compliant. I believe as you said, 50% of the people actually are trying to do something to help in the health category. And if you can find something that will give you results in a quick way, that just reinforces that you’re heading in the right direction.
Betsy McLaughlin:
So, Michael, was saying to me, the other day, he was saying, “You met a doctor and the doctor said if I could just put a Levels monitor on every patient 30 days before they walked in to the office, I wonder how much would change, both with what I’m able to do for them and how they look at their health.” That’s the magic of this wearable. And we just need to get more and more people to do it, because I think I have shared Levels with, I want to say maybe 15 people at this point and to a person, there’s not a single person that has not learned something from it that they believe will impact the rest of their lives. And these are not all people that need to lose weight. And these are not unhealthy people. These are just people who are interested in what else can I do? And Levels has taught them something that they can do. And even though they don’t continue with levels, they have changed their lifestyle to be able to adapt to whatever Levels has said. They learned from the Levels process.
Dr. Casey Means:
Well, that is so heartening to here. And yeah, I agree completely, especially with the statement that it really starts with education. I found this certainly when I transitioned out of the surgical world into functional medicine, so a holistic integrative practice, and I was spending two hours with every patient. When patients understood their physiology in detail, the mechanisms of how the interventions were going to shift that physiology, so I need you to eat these antioxidants because these conditions that you have are rooted in oxidative stress. So that it’s like making that connection, things happen so much faster.
Dr. Casey Means:
Education understanding, I really do feel like underlies behavior change in a way that we probably don’t even fully understand yet. But something about the mental model makes it easier to make those hard commitments when you really have a good grasp on why it’s going to help. So-
Betsy McLaughlin:
I was going to say one more thing too. I think what is interesting is that I think so many of us don’t want to be the answer that’s in the textbook. And so the beauty of this is that it is personalized. It is just your body that’s being read, it is just you that sees the results and it’s up to you to do what you want with it. And it actually puts control into our hands, into the user’s hands. And I find that to be a very powerful component.
Dr. Casey Means:
I could not agree more. And that’s the big mission at the company, which is we want to give agency to the individual and decentralize the control in healthcare to the person. Like you said, when the report card comes just from the doctor, it’s a very different relationship than your report card being generated yourself every day. Totally changes the way we, I think, feel motivation or inspired. So I agree completely. And I’d love to wrap maybe just with one to two minutes talking about something that we talked about out on our last call together, which was your interest in the regenerative agriculture movement, which I actually think is very tied to metabolic health.
Dr. Casey Means:
I think that we know that being close to the earth is very good for the body. It helps our microbiome. Obviously the nutrients are better in foods that are grown in a really clean way. But we’d love for you to just touch on what this regenerative agriculture movement means to you. I know you’re a big fan of game meats and things like that. And if there’s any interesting innovations in the space that you think people should know about.
Betsy McLaughlin:
I’m just really learning about this. I’m a friend Richard Christiansen who runs the Flamingo Estate here in Los Angeles and very dedicated to the regenerative food movement. And he’s really been educating me and his customers on the importance of thoughtful farming. For everybody who doesn’t know, it’s a holistic land management practice that uses photosynthesis in plants basically to keep carbon in the soil. So it improves soil health, it improves the yields of crops, it improves water resilience, nutrient density. It’s a very circular movement. And combats climate change because of the carbon being kept in the ground. So for those of us who want to help the planet and want to do it in other ways than just giving money, it’s very interesting to make your choice in food to be about food that has been grown with the utmost respect for the planet and for the animals on the planet.
Betsy McLaughlin:
Yeah. So I just recently started hearing about this through Richard, and actually transitioned all of my meats to be game meats, whether it’s elk or antelope or venison, even beef that is farmed correctly or through using these principles. And nutrition wise, do I notice the difference? I noticed they taste better. This is what’s starting to. It’s like when my mother, how many years ago, used to talk about how tomatoes just don’t taste the same way anymore as they used to. I always thought, yeah, it’s your parents saying that everything that happened back then was much better than it is now. But I really can taste the difference now.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And when I get a farmer’s market box, that is all regenerative of farming, you can taste the purity of the vegetable and you almost can taste the love and the respect that’s gone into growing this. And it’s changed really how I think about things. I need to learn more and I’m just beginning on this journey. But I think this is a movement that very quickly is going to grow. And as we all recognize that every single thing we put into our bodies is reflected in the way that our bodies work, why wouldn’t we want to put the purest?
Betsy McLaughlin:
And soon enough, again, it will become mass, and we will be… As the organic movement became, I’m hoping this is the next movement where it will be available to everybody, and so that you can make those healthy choices and can feel the difference. I can’t say that I eat this asparagus versus that asparagus and feel the difference immediately, but psychologically, I absolutely feel it. And it tastes better. And again, I don’t know whether that’s just me saying this is new and this is exciting, but I’ve had other people who’ve said to me the quality of the meat and the quality of the produce certainly on regenerative farming is much superior. Again, I’m just a novice in all of this, but I think this is the next wave.
Dr. Casey Means:
I think it’s great to hear that overview. And I think it’s nice. There are, I think two people on this call who see the connection between some of this futuristic biosensor wearable tech that can live in a world where we’re also thinking about things like regenerative agriculture and going back to sort of our traditional farming roots. In my mind, they actually fit together really clearly, because they both have to do with awareness of how food’s affecting our body and awareness of the cycles of things, the root causes of things. And particularly with metabolic health, for us to be optimally metabolically health lead, our microbiome has to be on point, our micronutrients have to be on point, our omega three levels have to be on point. All of those things are related to soil health. We’re not going to be able to fudge it or fake it with crappy food and really get the bodies these machines, our bodies working the way we want them to.
Dr. Casey Means:
And so I’m excited to see how these types of fields co-evolve together. And it’s really need to hear from you about how you’re starting to get into this world. And I know this episode is going to inspire a lot of people to take control of their health in a slightly different way. So thank you, Betsy, for being here.
Betsy McLaughlin:
And thank you, Casey. And thank you to the Levels team. You guys have changed my life and I am forever grateful.