#266 – How and why to eat an anti-inflammatory diet | Dr. Robert Lustig & Ben Grynol

Inflammation is an essential process in the body to help with healing and illness recovery. However, many people have chronic inflammation, which accelerates aging and drives disease processes. We can help control inflammation through diet. Dr. Robert Lustig and Ben Grynol discuss environmental and dietary sources of chronic inflammation as well as the foods that are anti-inflammatory.

03:04 — Inflammation is essential

Acute inflammatory responses help the body heal from injury. Whole-body inflammation helps to clear a virus. But chronic inflammation is problematic.

Inflammation is essential. Inflammation keeps us healthy because it clears out foreign invaders and it allows for us to clear damage and heal. That’s all part of the process of inflammation. You can’t do without it. But mostly, inflammation tends to be local. So you sprain your ankle; you get inflammation because you have to clear damaged tissue and you have to heal. You cut yourself shaving’ you’re going to get inflammation because you have to clear damaged tissue and you have to heal. Wound healing is the end product of inflammation. It’s essential. All of those are acute inflammatory responses and all of those are localized. And that’s good. There is other inflammation. There’s inflammation that’s whole-body inflammation, like, for instance, when you get a virus. The goal is, raise the body temperature to kill the bacteria or kill the virus. Try to activate those white blood cells to clear whatever the infection is. You’re doing damage, but ultimately you’re not. You are healing. But there is something called chronic inflammation where you don’t solve the problem. You don’t clear the damage. You don’t  do the healing. Because inflammation is unrelenting, continues, because the offending agent hasn’t been dealt with. Because you are in constant, unending exposure. The only way to stop it is to stop the exposure.

05:04 — What causes chronic inflammation?

Environmental toxins and a compromised gut barrier can both lead to chronic inflammation.

What is the exposure that causes chronic inflammation? Well, many things. They’re all in the environment. Air pollution causes chronic inflammation. We know that people who live closer to freeways have more risk for diabetes and more risk for cancer than people who don’t, because they are breathing an inflammatory particle. What about the rest of us? Our gut. Our gut is the source of the chronic inflammation, and the reason is because of our diet. Because that intestinal barrier has been perturbed, because it’s not blocking the junk from getting into the bloodstream in the same way, our lungs are not stopping the junk from getting into our bloodstream. Ultimately, if you have chronic inflammation, you’re going to generate cytokines, you’re going to generate heat, you’re going to generate the aging reaction, you’re going to generate cortisol, and you’re going to generate early death. That’s what inflammation does. And the only way we know how to stop inflammation is get rid of the exposure.

08:14 — Processed seed oils drive inflammation

Processed seed oils, found in ultra-processed foods, contain omega-6 fatty acids, which cause inflammation.

You can’t do very much about your air, except move. But you can do a whole lot about your diet. So we have things in our diet that are pro-inflammatory, and we have things in our diet that are anti-inflammatory. Pro-inflammatory foods are things that generate an immune response. Like what? Well, things that have omega-6 fatty acids. Seed oils. And the reason is because omega 6s are the precursor of a fatty acid called arachidonic acid. And arachidonic acid is the precursor to all of the inflammatory molecules—thromboxanes, leukotrienes, eicosanoids—basically causing inflammation. Where do you get seed oils from? Ultra-processed food. We’re talking soybean oil, we’re talking corn oil, we’re talking even canola oil. We’re talking about the oils that the food industry specifically uses because they increase shelf life and because they’re cheap.

09:40 — Sugar drives inflammation

Fructose from ultra-processed foods compromises the gut barrier.

Sugar is a pro-inflammatory item. And the reason is because of that fructose molecule. Glucose is not pro-inflammatory. But fructose is. Why? Because fructose causes changes in the microbiome that cause the bacteria in your microbiome to chew up that mucin layer, thus exposing your intestine to all of the junk that can get into your bloodstream. Fructose nitrates those tight junctions, rendering them permeable so that stuff can get through. And finally, fructose knocks off those immunologic cells, allowing bacteria, whole bacteria, to be able to pass through into the bloodstream. Because we can measure them. So sugar is a pro-inflammatory substrate. Seed oils? Sugar. Sounds like ultra processed food to me.

11:00 — Fiber is an anti-inflammatory food

Fiber feeds your microbiome so that your microbiome doesn’t consume the protective mucin layer in your gut.

How can fiber be an anti-inflammatory food when we don’t even digest it or absorb it? Because fiber is the food for your bacteria. It is the food for your microbiome. It’s what your microbiome chews up. And if you don’t feed your microbiome, your microbiome will feed on you. That’s how you lose your mucin layer. So when you consume fiber—that is, whole food, that hasn’t had the fiber stripped from it—you will be actually supporting your microbiome. And we know that because your microbiome will turn that fiber into a compound called short-chain fatty acids: acetate, propionate, butyrate. Butyrate has very specifically been shown to reduce intestinal inflammation, reduce the transit of bad stuff into the bloodstream, reduce systemic inflammation, reduce Alzheimer’s disease.  Bottom line, fiber is the nutrient for your bacteria and you have to feed your gut.

12:18 — Omega-3 fatty acids are anti-inflammatory

Omega-6 fatty acids cause inflammation, but omega-3 fatty acids counteract it.

Omega-3 fatty acids do the opposite of omega-6 fatty acids. They are the precursor to DHA, (docosahexaenoic acid), which is necessary for neurotransmission and for immune health. And also EPA, (eicosatetraenoic acid), which is also necessary for good brain function. And finally, ALA (alpha linolenic acid), which has cardiovascular protective effects. So where do you get omega-3s from? Well, you can get ALA from fruits and vegetables. But EPA and DHA need marine life. We need fish, okay? And it’s not because the fish make the omega-3s. The fish eat the omega-3s. What makes the omega 3s? The algae. The fish eat the algae. We eat the fish. We get our omega-3s third hand.

13:27 — Vitamin D is anti-inflammatory

Vitamin D places a check on inflammation.

The third anti-inflammatory food is vitamin D. Vitamin D suppresses something called the toll-like receptors that keep inflammation in check. And so by maintaining a check on inflammation, we can keep the inflammatory cascade from burgeoning out of control and causing all this excess damage.

14:52 — Controlling inflammation helps combat aging processes

Chronic inflammation increases burning, but it does not generate ATP, the body’s universal energy currency.

Inflammation turns your body away from growth and toward burning. You increase your burning rate. And the reason we know that is because you increase your body temperature. How else can you generate an increased body temperature unless you’re burning at a higher rate. The difference is you’re not making ATP out of it. You’re just making body heat. Now, that’s great for trying to fight off the invader. It’s not great for you. It’s a source of aging and it’s a source of early death. So we have to control inflammation.

15:37 — The Western diet causes inflammation

The Western diet, especially ultra-processed foods, damages the gut barrier, letting “junk” into the bloodstream.

Where’s the inflammation coming from? Now if you have an autoimmune disease, it’s coming from your immune system recognizing that something is foreign. Only about 1 in 10 people have an autoimmune disease. Yet 9 out of 10 people have inflammation. Where’s the rest of the inflammation coming from? It’s coming from the gut. It’s coming from your intestine. It’s coming from where the bacteria are. And the bacteria are all throughout your intestines. Your intestine is a sewer. It’s a pipe with junk in it. And that junk makes inflammatory cytokines. It makes lipopolysaccharide. It makes stuff that is bad for you. And it needs to stay in the intestine. So your intestine has developed three barriers to keep the junk where it belongs: It has a physical barrier called the mucin layer, which lines all the intestinal cells to keep the junk inside, not in your bloodstream. It has a biochemical barrier called the tight junctions to keep each of the cells approximated so that junk can’t get through. And finally, it has an immunological barrier to basically kill off any bacteria that might venture through the barrier and try to get into the bloodstream. All three of those barriers are under attack today. And so we, Americans and pretty much anybody who eats the Western diet, is inflamed, because of their gut, because of their diet. In order to fix that inflammation, in order to be able to utilize energy for either burning or growth instead of just eat, we need to fix our inflammation.

[00:00:00] Rob Lustig: So your intestine has developed three barriers to keep the junk where it belongs. It has a physical barrier called the mucin layer, which lines all the intestinal cells to keep the junk inside, not in your bloodstream. It has a biochemical barrier called tight junctions to keep each of the cells approximated so that junk can’t get through.

[00:00:32] Rob Lustig: And finally, it has an immunological barrier. To basically kill off any bacteria that might venture through the barrier and try to get into the bloodstream. All three of those barriers are under attack today. And so, we, Americans, and really, pretty much anybody who eats the western diet, is inflamed.

[00:00:55] Rob Lustig: Because of their gut, because of their diet.

[00:01:04] Ben Grynol: I’m Ben Grynol, part of the Early Startup Team here at Levels. We’re building tech that helps people to understand their metabolic health and along the way we have conversations with thought leaders about research backed information so you can take your health into your own hands. This is a whole new level.

[00:01:34] Ben Grynol: So in February of 2024, Dr. Robert Lustig and I found ourselves sitting across from each other in Los Angeles. We had planned to sit down and have a little chat about metabolic health and some of the implications around lifestyle, sleep, exercise. All these pillars of metabolic health. When we ended up sitting for six hours, we had a really deep conversation and we covered a number of topics.

[00:02:01] Ben Grynol: The idea was that we were filming some videos, some short form videos which would be helpful for Levels members and anyone interested in metabolic health generally to get more insight into some stuff. snippet, some takeaways of what they could think about certain categories of metabolic health. Well, we decided to cut these into a podcast as well.

[00:02:20] Ben Grynol: So we’ve got a number of topics and we thought, why don’t we categorize them and people can pick and choose what they want to listen to. So lots of good information, lots of soundbites here, but we stitched them together into these different categories. So there’s some transitions, but it might be something that is of interest.

[00:02:36] Ben Grynol: So the idea is always, I hope it helps people to learn more, to take metabolic health into their own hands. So in this episode, Rob covers inflammation, things like inflammatory responses, what are some triggers and what are some of the impacts in the body, what happens physiologically and from a biological perspective when people experience inflammation.

[00:03:05] Rob Lustig: Inflammation is essential. Inflammation. keeps us healthy because it clears out foreign invaders and it allows for us to clear damage and heal. That’s all part of the process of inflammation. You can’t do without it, but mostly inflammation tends to be local. So you sprain your ankle, you get inflammation because you have to clear damage.

[00:03:37] Rob Lustig: Damaged tissue and you have to heal. You cut yourself shaving, you’re gonna get inflammation because you have to clear damaged tissue and you have to heal. Wound healing is the end product of inflammation. It’s essential. All of those are acute inflammatory responses and all of those are localized. And that’s good.

[00:04:05] Rob Lustig: But there’s other inflammation. There’s inflammation that’s whole body inflammation, like, for instance, when you get a virus. The goal is raise the body temperature to kill the bacteria or kill the virus, try to activate those white blood cells to clear whatever the infection is. You’re doing damage, but ultimately you are healing.

[00:04:29] Rob Lustig: But there is something called chronic inflammation where you don’t. Solve the problem. You don’t clear the damage. You don’t the healing because the inflammation is unrelenting. It continues because the offending agent hasn’t been dealt with because you are in constant unending exposure. The only way to stop it is to stop the exposure.

[00:05:04] Rob Lustig: So, what is the exposure that causes chronic inflammation? Well, many things. They’re all in the environment. Air pollution causes chronic inflammation. We know that people who live closer to freeways have more risk for diabetes and more risk for cancer than people who don’t, because they are breathing an inflammatory particle.

[00:05:34] Rob Lustig: So, what about the rest of us? Our gut. Our gut is the source of the chronic inflammation, and the reason is because of our diet, because that intestinal barrier has been perturbed, because it’s not blocking the junk from getting into the bloodstream. In the same way, our lungs are not stopping the junk from getting into our bloodstream.

[00:06:03] Rob Lustig: Ultimately, if you have chronic inflammation, you’re going to generate cytokines, you’re going to generate, uh, heat, you’re going to generate the aging reaction, you’re going to generate cortisol, and you’re going to generate early death. That’s the way it works. What inflammation does. And the only way we know how to stop inflammation is get rid of the exposure.

[00:06:38] Casey Means: This is Dr. Casey means co founder of levels. If you’ve heard me talk on other podcasts before, you know, that I believe that tracking your glucose and optimizing your metabolic health is really the only way ultimate life hack. We know that cravings, mood instability and energy levels and weight are all tied to our blood sugar levels.

[00:06:59] Casey Means: And of course, all the downstream chronic diseases that are related to blood sugar are things that we can really greatly improve our chances of avoiding if we keep our blood sugar in a healthy and stable level throughout our lifetime. So I’ve been using CGM now on and off for the past started levels and I have about my diet and my healt simple swaps that keep my like flax crackers instead for my blood sugar.

[00:07:31] Casey Means: Like and apples and oranges an Grapes seem to spike my blood sugar off the chart. I’m also a notorious night owl and I’ve really learned with using levels. If I get to bed at a reasonable hour and get good quality sleep, my blood sugar levels are so much better. And that has been so motivating for me on my health journey.

[00:07:51] Casey Means: It’s also been helpful for me in terms of keeping my weight at a stable level. Much more effortlessly than it has been in the past. So you can sign up for levels at levels dot link slash podcast. Now let’s get back to this episode.

[00:08:14] Rob Lustig: You can’t do very much about your air except move, but you can do a whole lot about your diet. So, we have things in our diet that are pro inflammatory, and we have things in our diet that are anti inflammatory. Pro inflammatory foods are things that generate an immune response. What, like what? Well, things that have omega 6 fatty acids.

[00:08:46] Rob Lustig: Okay, seed oils, and the reason is because omega 6s are the precursor of a fatty acid called arachidonic acid, and arachidonic acid is the precursor to all of the inflammatory molecules, thromboxanes, leukotrienes, zycosanoids. Basically causing inflammation. Where do you get seed oils from? Ultra processed food.

[00:09:17] Rob Lustig: Because we’re talking soybean oil, we’re talking corn oil, we’re talking even canola oil. We’re talking about the oils that the food industry specifically uses Because they increase shelf life, and because they’re cheap. Are there other pro inflammatory foods? Absolutely. Sugar is a pro inflammatory item.

[00:09:43] Rob Lustig: And the reason is because of that fructose molecule. Glucose is not pro inflammatory, but fructose is. Why? Because fructose causes changes in the microbiome that cause the bacteria in your microbiome to chew up that mucin layer, thus exposing your intestine to all of the junk that can get into your bloodstream.

[00:10:10] Rob Lustig: Fructose nitrates those tight junctions, rendering them permeable so that stuff can get through. And finally, fructose knocks off bacteria. Those immunologic cells allowing for bacteria, whole bacteria, to be able to pass through into the bloodstream because we can measure them. So, sugar is a pro inflammatory substrate.

[00:10:36] Rob Lustig: Seed oils, sugar. Sounds like ultra processed food to me. All right, what are anti inflammatory foods? Anti inflammatory foods are foods that suppress that immune response. And I can sum that up with three items. The first, fiber. How can fiber be an anti inflammatory food when we don’t even digest it or absorb it?

[00:11:08] Rob Lustig: Because fiber is the food for your bacteria. It is the food for your microbiome. It’s what your microbiome chews up. And if you don’t feed your microbiome, your microbiome will feed on you. That’s how you lose your mucin layer. So when you consume fiber, that is, whole food that hasn’t had the fiber stripped from it, you will be actually losing it.

[00:11:34] Rob Lustig: Supporting your microbiome, and we know that because your microbiome will turn that fiber into a compound called short chain fatty acids, acetate, propionate, butyrate. Butyrate has very specifically been shown to reduce intestinal inflammation, reduce the transit of bad stuff into the bloodstream, reduce systemic inflammation, reduce Alzheimer’s disease.

[00:12:04] Rob Lustig: Bye. Bye. Bottom line, fiber is the nutrient for your bacteria, and you have to feed your gut, and we’re not. Second, omega 3 fatty acids. Omega 3 fatty acids do the opposite of omega 6 fatty acids. They are the precursor to fiber. DHA, docohexaenoic acid, which is necessary for neurotransmission and for immune health.

[00:12:35] Rob Lustig: And also EPA, icosapentaenoic acid, which is also necessary for good brain function. And finally, ALA, alpha linolenic acid, which has cardiovascular protective effects. So where do you get omega 3s from? Well, you can get ALA from fruits and vegetables. But EPA and DHA need marine life. We need fish, okay? And it’s not because the fish make the omega 3s.

[00:13:06] Rob Lustig: The fish eat the omega 3s. What makes the omega 3s? The algae. The fish eat the algae. We eat the fish. We get our omega 3s third hand. Problem is, there isn’t enough wild fish to go around. And so, Omega 3s are a prime directive to metabolic health. And then lastly, the third anti inflammatory food is Vitamin D.

[00:13:33] Rob Lustig: Vitamin D suppresses, This is something called the toll like receptors that keep inflammation in check. And so by maintaining a check on inflammation, we can keep the inflammatory cascade from burgeoning out of control and causing all this excess damage. So omega 3s, vitamin D, fiber, sounds like real food to me.

[00:14:02] Rob Lustig: Inflammation is another control mechanism of the body. Of course. Our body is our temple. Our temple sometimes gets invaded. By foreign invaders and the goal is to clear those foreign invaders out. We have several pathways in our body to generate inflammation. Ways to stop foreign invaders, bacteria, viruses, fungi, Parasites.

[00:14:38] Rob Lustig: Inflammation is essential to life. You can’t live if you don’t generate a good inflammatory response. So, you need inflammation. Inflammation turns your body away from growth and toward burning. You increase your burning rate, and the reason we know that is because you increase your body temperature. How else can you generate an increased body temperature unless you’re burning at a higher rate?

[00:15:14] Rob Lustig: The difference is you’re not making ATP out of it. You’re just making body heat. That’s great for trying to fight off the invader. It’s not great for you. It’s a source of aging, and it’s a source of early deaths. So, we have to control inflammation. So the question is, where’s the inflammation coming from?

[00:15:42] Rob Lustig: If you have an autoimmune disease, it’s coming from your immune system recognizing something as foreign. But, you know, only about 1 in 10 people have an autoimmune disease, yet 9 out of 10 people have inflammation. So where’s the rest of the inflammation coming from? It’s coming from the gut. It’s coming from your intestine, it’s coming from where the bacteria are, and the bacteria are all throughout your intestine.

[00:16:17] Rob Lustig: Your intestine is a sewer, it’s a pipe with junk in it. And that junk makes inflammatory cytokines, it makes lipopolysaccharides, it makes stuff that is bad for you. And it needs to stay in the intestine. So your intestine has developed three barriers to keep the junk where it belongs. It has a physical barrier called the mucin layer, which lines all the intestinal cells to keep the the junk inside, not in your bloodstream.

[00:16:56] Rob Lustig: It has a biochemical barrier called tight junctions to keep each of the cells approximated so that junk can’t get through. And finally, it has an immunological barrier Basically kill off any bacteria that might venture through the barrier and try to get into the bloodstream. All three of those barriers are under attack today.

[00:17:22] Rob Lustig: And so we, Americans, and really pretty much anybody who eats the Western diet, is inflamed because of their gut, because of their diet. In order to fix that inflammation, in order to be able to utilize energy for either burning or growth, Instead of just eat, we need to fix our inflammation.