#260 – Why high insulin levels drive fat storage and weight gain and what you can do | Dr. Robert Lustig & Ben Grynol

High insulin levels drive the growth of fat cells. In turn, fat gain can exacerbate insulin resistance, leading to a vicious cycle. Insulin is a hormone the pancreas releases in response to glucose rising in the bloodstream. A lower insulin level is required to lose fat, and dietary habits and lifestyle changes can help. Dr. Robert Lustig and Ben Grynol discuss insulin’s dual functions in the body, why high insulin leads to fat storage, and how to lower insulin levels.

1:23 — What drives fat growth?

Levels Advisor Robert Lustig, MD, describes the role insulin plays in fat growth.

Insulin is a hormone. It is released by the beta cells of the pancreas, which lives behind your stomach. And it responds to the glucose rise in your bloodstream when you eat. Where does that glucose go? Well, it goes to the various cells of the body, but primarily the excess will go to the fat. And so insulin will drive the growth of the fat depot. More insulin, more fat. Insulin is the control mechanism by which cells turn from burning and toward growth. And it makes sense that that would be the case, because when you have excess energy, when you have excess glucose, you’re going to do something to turn that into growth. So one of the lynchpins between growth and burning is the level of the hormone insulin.

2:28 — Why insulin is both good and bad

Dr. Lustig describes the functions of insulin and why they matter.

Insulin is always good and bad. Insulin is never good or bad. It’s always good and bad. It’s good because it clears the glucose from the bloodstream, because glucose in the bloodstream does its own damage. It causes endothelial cell dysfunction. It causes the cells lining the inside of your arteries to be dysfunctional. One of the reasons for atherosclerosis, one of the reasons for hypertension. You’ve got to get the glucose out of the bloodstream. Think of it. A standard blood glucose is about 80 mg/dL. That’s how it’s reported. If you figure out your total blood volume of 6 liters. That means you have about 5 grams of glucose in your bloodstream when you are fasting: 1 teaspoon full. When you consume an orange juice, you have consumed about nine times the amount of glucose that you have in your entire bloodstream. Your body has to do something to clear that before it does damage. And that’s the role of insulin. Insulin clears that glucose before it does damage. The problem is that the insulin molecule itself does damage because it causes the coronary arteries to grow, it causes the vascular smooth muscle in your heart and in the rest of your vascular system to grow, it causes the glandular tissue to grow, it causes all sorts of things to grow. And when they grow, they risk cancer, they risk clotting, and they risk degeneration. So growth is good when you’re a kid. It’s not so good when you’re an adult. Keeping that growth signal down is a primary directive. And insulin is working against you as you get older.

4:53 — Why insulin resistance creates a vicious cycle of fat gain

Dr. Lustig describes why lowering insulin levels is crucial for fat loss.

Insulin is a growth factor. Insulin makes cells grow and divide. There is no growth without insulin. Now, if you’re a kid and you’re growing, if you’re in puberty and you’re growing, if you’re pregnant and you’re growing, you need more insulin. The phenomenon of insulin resistance— that is insulin working less well—is necessary to drive all of that growth because you need a high insulin level. But if you’re laying down fat, that’s the wrong thing to be doing with your energy, to be turning it into fat. That’s the growth you don’t want. But insulin is going to drive that growth. If you’re consuming excess, or if you’re consuming things that drive insulin, like refined carbohydrates and sugar, you’re going to lay down more fat. And the higher your insulin goes, the more fat you’re going to lay down. Worse yet, that fat then releases proteins that feedback on the liver and make your insulin work even less well. And now you’ve got insulin resistance and you’re going to drive even more insulin up and even more fat gain. So you get caught in this vicious cycle of more insulin, more fat, more insulin, more fat. And you can’t get the fat down until you get the insulin down.

6:57 — Changing diet is the easiest way to lower insulin levels to drive fat loss

Every proven weight-management strategy lowers insulin.

Insulin is constantly pushing on your fat cell, saying, “Store more energy, store more energy.” We have to turn that around. We have to get the fat cell to give up energy in order to be able to lose weight. But in the face of a high insulin, it can’t be done. The only way to get a fat cell to give up its energy is to get the insulin level down any way you can. The easiest way is diet. The second easiest way is exercise. There is no weight loss until insulin declines. You have to get your insulin down in order to be able to lose weight. Otherwise, that insulin’s just going to keep pushing on your fat and making it grow even more. Insulin reduction is absolutely required for weight loss. And every weight loss modality that works gets insulin down.

[00:00:00] Insulin clears that glucose before it does damage. The problem is that the insulin molecule itself does damage. Because it causes coronary arteries to grow, it causes the vascular smooth muscle in your heart and in the rest of your vascular system to grow, it causes glandular tissue to grow, it causes all sorts of things to grow, and when they grow, They risk cancer, they risk clotting, and they risk, uh, degeneration.

[00:00:37] So, growth is good when you’re a kid. It’s not so good when you’re an adult. Keeping that growth signal down is a primary directive. And insulin is working against you as you get older.

[00:00:57] Ben: So in February of 2024, Dr. Robert Lustig and I found ourselves sitting across from each other in Los Angeles. We had planned to sit down and have a little chat about metabolic health and some of the implications around lifestyle, sleep, exercise, all these pillars of metabolic health. When we ended up sitting for six hours, we had a really deep conversation and we covered a number of topics.

[00:01:24] Ben: The idea was that we were filming some videos, some short form videos, which would be helpful for Levels members and anyone interested in metabolic health generally to get more insight into some snippets, some takeaways of what they could think about certain categories of metabolic health. Well, we decided to cut these into a podcast as well.

[00:01:45] Ben: So we’ve got a number of topics and we thought, why don’t we categorize them and people can pick and choose what they want to listen to. So lots of good information, lots of soundbites here, but we stitched them together into these different categories. So, there’s some transitions, but it might be something that is of interest.

[00:02:01] Ben: So the idea is always, I hope it helps people to learn more, to take metabolic health into their own hands So in this episode, Rob covers insulin, everything related to insulin resistance, circulation and even how Insulin impacts things like weight loss and overall metabolic health over time.

[00:02:20] Insulin is a hormone. It is released by the pancreas, the beta cells of the pancreas, which lives behind your stomach, and it responds to the glucose rise in your bloodstream when you eat. Where does that glucose go? Well, it goes to the various cells of the body, but primarily the excess will go to fat.

[00:02:48] And so insulin will drive the growth of the fat depot. So, more insulin, more fat. Insulin is the control mechanism by which cells turn from burning and toward growth. And it makes sense that that would be the case because when you have excess energy, when you have excess glucose, you’re going to do something to turn that into growth.

[00:03:17] So, one of the linchpins between growth and burning is the level of the hormone insulin.

[00:03:25] Insulin is always good and bad. Insulin is never good or bad. It’s always good and bad. It’s good because it clears the glucose from the bloodstream. Because glucose in the bloodstream does its own damage. It causes endothelial cell dysfunction. It causes the cells lining the inside of your arteries to be dysfunctional.

[00:03:54] One of the reasons for arteriosclerosis. One of the reasons for hypertension. You’ve got to get the glucose out of the bloodstream. Think of it. A standard blood glucose is about 80 milligrams per deciliter. That’s how it’s reported. If you figure out your total blood volume of six liters, that means you have about five grams of glucose.

[00:04:27] of glucose in your bloodstream when you are fasting. One teaspoonful. When you consume an orange juice, you have consumed about nine times the amount of glucose that you have in your entire bloodstream. Your body has to do something to clear that before it does damage. And that’s the role of insulin.

[00:04:53] Insulin clears that glucose before it does damage. The problem is that the insulin molecule itself does damage. Because it causes coronary arteries to grow, it causes the vascular smooth muscle in your heart and in the rest of your vascular system to grow, it causes glandular tissue to grow, it causes all sorts of things to grow, and when they grow, They risk cancer, they risk clotting, and they risk, uh, degeneration.

[00:05:30] So, growth is good when you’re a kid. It’s not so good when you’re an adult. Keeping that growth signal down is a primary directive. And insulin is working against you as you get older.

[00:05:51] Insulin is a growth factor. Insulin makes cells grow and divide. There is no growth without insulin. If you’re a kid and you’re growing, if you’re in puberty and you’re growing, if you’re pregnant and you’re growing, you need more insulin. The phenomenon of insulin resistance, that is, insulin working less well, is necessary to drive all of that growth.

[00:06:33] because you need a high insulin level. If you’re laying down fat, that’s the wrong thing to be doing with your energy to be turning it into fat. That’s the growth you don’t want, but insulin is going to drive that growth. So if you’re consuming insulin, If you eat excess or if you’re consuming things that drive insulin, like refined carbohydrate and sugar, you’re going to lay down more fat.

[00:07:07] And the higher your insulin goes, the more fat you’re going to lay down. Worse yet, that fat then releases proteins that feed back on the liver and make your insulin work even less well. And now you’ve got insulin resistance, and you’re going to drive even more insulin up, more fat gain. You get caught in this vicious cycle of more insulin, more fat, more insulin, more fat.

[00:07:42] And you can’t get the fat down until you get the insulin down. Fixing the insulin resistance is job one.

[00:07:54] Insulin is constantly pushing on your fat cell, saying store more energy, store more energy. We have to turn that around. We have to get the fat cell to give up energy in order to be able to lose weight. But in the face of a high insulin, it can’t be done. The only way to get a fat cell to give up its energy is to get the insulin level down any way you can.

[00:08:26] The easiest way Is diet. The second easiest way is exercise. There is no weight loss until insulin declines. You have to get your insulin down in order to be able to lose weight. Otherwise, that insulin’s just gonna keep pushing on your fat and making it grow even more. Insulin reduction is absolutely required for weight loss.

[00:08:59] And every weight loss modality that works gets insulin down.