#246 – How to keep your blood sugar more stable and why it matters for weight loss and overall health | Jessie Inchauspé & Dr. Casey Means

Stable glucose levels are a foundation of feeling and looking your best at any age. When glucose levels are more erratic—with spikes and crashes—cravings, weight gain, low energy, health issues, and more can ensue. Jessie Inchauspé and Dr. Casey Means, thought leaders on the topic of blood sugar, discuss simple hacks for keeping glucose levels more stable without resorting to restrictive diets, and they share why stable levels inform health.

Helpful links:

Jessie Inchauspé: https://www.jessieinchauspe.com
GlucoseGodess: https://www.glucosegoddess.com
Glucose Revolution: The life-changing power of balancing your blood sugar: https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Revolution-Life-Changing-Power-Balancing/dp/1982179414/
The Glucose Goddess Method: https://www.amazon.com/Glucose-Goddess-Method-Cutting-Cravings/dp/1668024527/
Jessie Inchauspé on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/glucosegoddess/
Jessie Inchauspé on Twitter/X: https://twitter.com/glucosegoddesss/
Casey Means, MD: https://www.caseymeans.com/goodenergy
Good Energy: The Surprising Connection Between Metabolism and Limitless Health: https://www.caseymeans.com/goodenergy
Casey Means, MD, on Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/drcaseyskitchen/
Casey Means, MD, on Twitter: https://twitter.com/DrCaseysKitchen

12:59 — Are type 2 diabetes and obesity genetic, dictated by lifestyle factors, or both?

Chemist, biochemist, and author Jessie Inchauspé shares that genetics is only a small factor when it comes to these conditions.

We did see that there were some genes that increased your likelihood of type 2 diabetes or of obesity. But these account for a very small fraction of why you actually get the disease. Now, let me give you a few examples. So from twin studies, so we take identical twins, same genetic code, OK? Exactly the same genetic code. It is very possible that one of the two twins will get type two diabetes and the other one won’t. So just from that alone, you can understand that it’s clearly not a hundred percent genetic. Then another one that’s interesting is that type two diabetes used to be called “adult-onset diabetes.” And now even kids are getting it. But our genes haven’t changed in 20 years, but this has changed. And then finally, if it’s a genetic disease, then why is it possible to reverse it when you change your lifestyle? So I think that is, unfortunately, something a lot of people hear, and it can feel quite depressing if you get the disease and you’re told it’s just genetic—there’s nothing you can do about it. I think it’s very clear now, and there’s so much evidence that shows us that we can change our outcomes when it comes to type 2 diabetes. And yes, it is difficult. It requires changing what you eat, how you eat. For many people—they don’t have access to healthy foods. It’s very difficult, but it is not a genetic disease.

15:53 — Hacks for keeping blood sugar more stable

Simple everyday changes to eating and movement habits can help prevent blood sugar spikes and crashes.

I’m a scientist, and I took all the latest research on glucose levels and I turned it into 10 simple tips. These are free. They are actually kind of common sense, but now from a scientific standpoint, we understand why they work so well. So top ones: Have a savory breakfast, not a sweet one. Start your meals with vegetables. Never eat sugar on an empty stomach (always as dessert after a meal. After you eat, use your muscles for 10 minutes; go for a 10-minute walk. Have some vinegar; dilute it in water before a meal. Put clothing on your carbs. Have a savory snack instead of a sweet one, etc. That’s the core.

24:22 — People want to be healthy, but the food industry complicates matters

The food industry sells convenience with ultra-processed foods, a root cause of poor health.

There’s such a message in the conventional healthcare system around patients being non-compliant and lazy and if people wanted to be healthy they would. And I’ve always really pushed back on that because the whole system is designed to make it easier and cheaper to make choices that are unhealthy.

28:29 — Nutritional choices can impact mental health

Inchauspé describes experiencing depersonalization episodes in early adulthood after an accident and how she connected symptoms to glucose spikes.

One morning I started feeling one of these episodes coming on and I had just worn a glucose monitor for three, four days. I check my glucose monitor and what do I see? A massive, massive, massive glucose spike to like 165. And something clicked in my head. I said, “Wait a minute. This spike is caused by what I had for breakfast 35 minutes ago. And this depersonalization episode is coming on at the same time as this spike. Maybe they’re connected. Maybe the spike is causing something in my brain to react to cause those symptoms.” Now I understand it quite well. I’m like, “Well, yeah, I mean, inflammation very simply cortisol, stress in the body, bam, releases symptoms, and it changed everything.” I thought, “Oh, wait a minute. Maybe if I start looking at my food, I can already start helping my mental health a little bit.” And that created the baseline for my health journey and my healing. But it took me 10 freaking years of not connecting my lifestyle to my mental health at all.

35:56 — The premise behind Inchauspé’s ‘Glucose Goddess Method’

Inchauspé describes the results of the experiment presented in one of her books.

For any scientist listening, what I did was not a proper placebo-controlled randomized clinical trial. We are just talking about an experiment. So for my second book, I recruited people off Instagram and I asked them to go through these four weeks and to tell me how it went for them and what happened? So after these four weeks, adding the four hacks, not changing anything else, not cutting out any foods apart from the hacks… You can do whatever you want; you can drink your wine, you can have your chocolate ice cream—whatever. The results were amazing. After four weeks, 90% of people cut their cravings, 89% of people were less hungry, 70% of people had more energy just with these four hacks. And then you have amazing stats, like 41% of people with diabetes improved their diabetes numbers, 50% of people slept better, etc.

39:59 — Tracking biomarkers provides insight to your metabolic health

Casey Means, MD, shares the biomarkers that best inform metabolic health status.

I believe fasting insulin is the most important test that we can really do other than understanding our glucose levels, because as you’ve talked about so much, fasting insulin is going to change possibly long before our fasting glucose changes. So we really need to see…what’s going on with this incredible hormone that’s going to have a huge impact on our weight gain and all this stuff. So fasting insulin, triglycerides… Uric acid is another metabolic marker downstream of fructose… CRP. I generally do Function Health, which is 109 biomarkers for less than $500. And you never have to talk to a doctor to get those labs. So it’s an amazing startup that’s making labs more accessible. And then I do the Levels panel, which is just five key metabolic biomarkers, more like every three months to just keep on top of it. So that’s triglycerides, hemoglobin A1c, uric acid, ApoB, and fasting insulin.

42:08 — A siloed approach to healthcare misses the big picture

Dr. Means describes why healthcare tends to look at biomarker levels individually rather than considering what they mean together.

A lot of it goes back to the way that healthcare in the United States was set up from a billing standpoint. When we really decided that we were going to bill things a specific way, we had to code everything with an individual code. So it kind of trained doctors to think of the body in all these little separate parts and to code everything separately. So you can code for high cholesterol, and you can code for high triglycerides or high glucose, these different things. But really what that means is metabolic dysfunction.

45:06 — Can supplements really help with metabolic health?

Inchauspé describes her newly released supplement, Anti-Spike Formula.

I found these very recently discovered properties of four plants. And these plants have existed since forever. But recently scientists have found that they have an amazing impact on your glucose levels. The plants are mulberry leaf extract… lemon peel extract, antioxidants from green vegetables, and cinnamon. I put these all together into what I’m calling Anti-Spike Formula. This product does two things. It has an immediate action, so when you take it before a meal, it cuts the glucose spike of the meal by up to 40%, which is more than vinegar, and also the insulin spike by up to 40%. How does it do this? So the mulberry leaf contains a molecule called DNJ, and DNJ is so badass. She grabs up to 40% of the sugar molecules from the food you just ate, and instead of letting them go through to your bloodstream, she brings them down to your microbiome. Your gut microbes then feed on these undigested carbs very happily, creating short-chain fatty acids, having the best time of their life. And you just ate your chocolate ice cream with 40% smaller impact on your glucose levels.

57:37 — We need systemic change in the food industry

Changing consumer habits will help be a catalyst for altering problems in the food industry, but we also need regulations.

When I first started, I thought the only thing we need to do is educate the consumer. And now I’m realizing, yes, that’s very important, but we also need to act at the systemic level and actually push regulation so that food companies cannot advertise to kids super ultra-processed foods. It cannot put on a full-of-sugar cereal box “Good for you. Healthy for your heart.” We also need to make sure that there are checks and balances in that situation, but we need to do both.

1:05: 52 — The science behind food cravings

The crashes that follow a glucose spike cause hunger for additional carbs or sweets.

If you eat in a way that creates a spike, then about 90 minutes later you’re going to have this drop, and that’s going to tell you, “Casey, eat a cookie, right?” And that’s something we’ve all felt, and it’s hard to fight against it. And the solution is not actually to fight against it. The solution is to try to fix the underlying issue of the glucose spike. So using the hacks, for example. And then what happens is that when you eat something sweet you’re still getting this very enjoyable dopamine hit. You know, the pleasure molecule in your brain. But if you get it with less of a glucose spike, you’re going to have fewer consequences—consequences on the cravings rollercoaster. So all of a sudden when you eat your cookie, you’re not setting off a 12-hour craving marathon where every 90 minutes you want more sugar. Instead, you’re enjoying it for the pleasure without the follow-on roller coaster and cravings and sugar addiction.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:00:00):

I see people who are 85 years old who start the hacks and a month later they’re like, “Wow, this is the first time I actually feel good in my body ever.” Your glucose levels in your body responds instantly to what you do. At no point will what you eat and how you live not impact how you feel. There’s not a point where you’ve gone so far that whatever you do, nothing’s going to change. It’s not true. Things change instantly. They react to how you eat, how you move, how you manage your stress, how you exercise, how you sleep, who you’re around. Even being around people, you feel differently depending on their energy. Well, food goes inside your body. It impacts you immediately, so it’s never too late, and please try the hacks, in a couple of days you’ll feel better.

Ben Grynol (00:00:40):

Change comes over time. Change is not fast. Change is progressive. Change is evolution. It’s something that we are always going through. This is a movement very much that’s happening in the space of metabolic health as we speak. And what better way to talk about this evolution of metabolic health, glucose and blood sugar than having Dr. Casey Means, Levels co-founder and now levels advisor, who is an author coming out with a new book, May 14th, make sure you check it out. It’s called Good Energy.

(00:01:15):

She sat down with Glucose Goddess Jessie Inchauspé, who is a biochemist in New York Times bestselling author of Glucose Revolution, a book that came out last year, and no pun intended, very much revolutionize the way that we talk about blood sugar and blood sugar regulation. How do we manage it? How do we manage our metabolic health? What are some hacks that we can do?

(00:01:37):

Well, Jessie is also an entrepreneur. She recently came out with the new supplement called Anti-Spike Formula that helps to mitigate some of the spikes related to glucose. It’s not what they focused on in this episode, but it’s worth noting two women thought leaders who are leading the charge in the space and who are both entrepreneurs. Lots of commonalities. Well, what else do they also have in common? They both worked at 23andMe, and they both found out that Casey grew up in Georgetown. That’s Georgetown, DC, and Jessie went to Georgetown University. Lots of things in common, not only glucose, not only metabolic health, and having deep discussions about health and wellness, but lots of things of shared interest.

(00:02:21):

And so, in this episode, the two of them sat down and they discussed the foundations of metabolic health, why it’s important and how to improve upon it. Jessie has a number of hacks, as does Casey, for ways in which you can start to think about improving your own health and wellness. These are shared in the episode. They talked about lifestyle habits and environmental factors, social pressures and conditions that play such an important role in people’s health. When many people around poor food choices day in, day out, think about things like a workplace. Think about things like an airport. Think about any convenience that we very much have in North America today.

(00:03:00):

Well, this becomes more challenging over time to avoid these poor food choices. Some of it can be due to social pressures. Others can very much be due to convenience. Well, we know metabolic health isn’t a snap your fingers and it changes overnight phenomenon. It’s something that things like insulin resistance, things like being pre-diabetic or developing type two diabetes, this happens over years. It can take 10 years. It can take more for people to all of a sudden realize, “Hey, how did I get to this point?” Well, if you go back and you do the calculation, it is the amalgamation of poor choices, lack of sleep, lack of exercise, poor food, poor nutrition. All of these things lead to obesogens. Environmental factors, stress. All of these things compound over time, and so it’s important to manage and maintain metabolic health starting now, and it’s never too late.

(00:03:55):

But changing culture is an uphill battle, especially in medicine and the food industry. Old habits die hard and they’re ingrained in the way that many people operate. These mental models about the way the world works and how we practice healthcare, well, to be blunt, they’re broken and they need to be fixed. We haven’t quite hit the tipping point in medicine yet to have the defacto standard be root cause functional medicine and preventative care. Right now, we focus on treatment rather than prevention. This is exactly what Casey’s book is all about, Good Energy. You’ll hear about it more in May. Again, make sure you pre-order that copy.

(00:04:37):

And so there’s some stories that even Jessie shared about how doctors have used her book to create this foundation and helped people to reverse things like type two just through her work. It’s pretty incredible what’s happening in the world today. All of this talk, all these discussions around metabolic health are influencing us all and we have to keep spreading the word amongst the community. It’s more important now than it ever has been before.

(00:05:04):

Both Jessie and Casey sat down and they discussed all these different things around the healthcare system, glucose hacks and why there’s nothing that gives the magic moment like ACGM, a continuous glucose monitor. When you see the data about your own nutritional habits or your lifestyle habits, that behavior change becomes real to see what foods and what environmental factors, what lifestyle choices impact your glucose, what makes it rise, what makes it fall, what helps to manage and maintain it. Those are things that you didn’t realize before. Anyway, it was a great conversation between Jessie and Casey where these two thought leaders in the space of metabolic health who are leading the charge we’re able to riff and have a lot of fun. No need to wait. Here’s where they kick things off.

Dr. Casey Means (00:05:55):

I am so freaking excited to be sitting here with you today. I feel like this episode is years in the making. Thank you so much for being here.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:06:05):

Thanks for having me. It’s going to be fun.

Dr. Casey Means (00:06:07):

I’m so grateful for what you have brought to the world. You have totally changed the world. That is the understatement of this century. You have brought metabolic health and glucose awareness into the zeitgeist like no one else in human history has done. That’s a fact. That’s a fact.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:06:22):

Oh, come on.

Dr. Casey Means (00:06:23):

That’s a fact. I won’t take it back. And just to share a little bit with the audience who of course all know you and love you, you started Glucose Goddess five years ago?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:06:35):

Yup.

Dr. Casey Means (00:06:36):

And now, have over 3 million people in your community so active, so engaged, learning about glucose management. You’ve written two books in the past two and a half years. Glucose Revolution and The Glucose Goddess Method have sold over 1.5 million books, which now that I’m on the book track right now, I’m realizing that that is the most astronomical feat.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:07:00):

Yes, but in many different languages. So that helps.

Dr. Casey Means (00:07:03):

Okay. 1.5 plus million books changing people’s lives. You have been working on advocacy work. You have literally graced the pages of Vogue, Elle, Bustle, like all these incredible magazines. Good Morning America, TV, radio, looking fabulous while you’re doing all of it, making science accessible, oh, and you’re also a math major and a biochemist. I could go on and on, but I feel so grateful and honored to be here with you today. I feel like I already know you through the internet. I’m so excited to be drinking some vinegar cocktails.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:07:36):

I love this cocktail that you made together. It’s very sweet. I don’t drink alcohol, so the vinegar cocktails is my little fancy drinks, so I love it. Thank you for making it.

Dr. Casey Means (00:07:44):

Absolutely.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:07:45):

Thank you for that amazing intro. I appreciate it.

Dr. Casey Means (00:07:47):

It’s not even scratching the surface. You also have some super exciting things happening, which we’re going to talk about. One is on the table, and by the time this episode comes out, this is going to be in the world. This is the Anti-Spike Formula. We’re going to be talking about it during this episode. Curb spikes by like 40%.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:02):

40%.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:04):

Yes. This is crazy. So we’re going to talk about that too. Anyways, welcome and-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:10):

Thank you.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:10):

… let’s just jump in.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:11):

Let’s do it. Thank you so much.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:13):

So we have a couple life parallels that I’m not sure if you know of. One is that I grew up in Georgetown and you got your master’s in Georgetown.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:22):

Oh, cool. I didn’t know that.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:23):

Which is so fun. So I grew up right next to Georgetown University. But the second fun fact is that I interned at 23andMe in 2009.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:32):

Wild.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:33):

Because Linda Avey, who was one of the co-founders, came and spoke in one of my classes at Stanford and it was called Genomics, A Technical and Culture Revolution. And I literally sat in her lecture and I was like, “This is the future. This is everything. I will do anything to work here.”

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:48):

Did you do a summer internship or something?

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:49):

I did. I did a summer internship, and it was actually all about creating videos for their educational platform to basically-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:55):

Wow.

Dr. Casey Means (00:08:55):

… how people learn about genetics. And then that is, of course, where you-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:08:59):

Worked for five years, but actually, I started as an intern as well.

Dr. Casey Means (00:09:02):

No.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:09:03):

Yeah. So I had the same experience where I had just finished my master’s at Georgetown in biochemistry, and I really wanted to go to Silicon Valley where Tech Met Health, and I was like, “Ah, this is going to be amazing.” And so I had heard about this company 23andMe, and I really wanted to work there. I begged and I wanted to work on the product team, not on the research site, unlike the interface website user experience. And so, I begged them for an internship, but they said, “You’re not qualified. We’re not hiring. You don’t have a Visa. No.” But after enough begging, they gave me a two-month summer internship, which then turned into five years and it was amazing. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:09:38):

Five years. That’s incredible.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:09:39):

Not a five-year internship, but they actually-

Dr. Casey Means (00:09:40):

Five years of being a senior product manager and doing all those. That’s incredible. Well, I would like to start by talking about genetics since this is a shared passion. A lot of people will say, “Well, I’m not going to do these hacks. Diabetes runs in my family. Obesity runs in my family.” Implying that this is predestined and it’s genetic. And so I’d be curious to hear from you digging into all the research, how much really is genetically preordained and how much is lifestyle alone? How much is the combination? And then a follow-up question to that that is related is there’s this big push I’m seeing recently in media and across news channels of obesity being a genetic disease. Dr. Fatima Stanford, who’s working on nutritional guidelines, she’s an obesity doctor from Harvard, said that literally obesity is a genetic disease. And so what do you think is happening here with this new movement towards that?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:10:35):

Well, if we say that diabetes and obesity are genetic diseases, that is ignoring just a mountain of evidence showing us, that’s not the case. So when somebody says, “Diabetes runs in my family, therefore it must be genetic.” You also have to remember that one thing that you inherit from your parents is not just your genes, but it’s also your lifestyle, your habits, your socioeconomic status, what you’re used to eating, what you can eat, what you can afford to eat, et cetera. So that’s first things first.

(00:11:02):

Then from my work at 23andMe, yes, we did see that there were some genes that increased your likelihood of type two diabetes or of obesity, but these account for a very small fraction of why you actually get the disease. Now, let me give you a few examples. So from twin studies, so we take identical twins, same genetic code, okay? Exactly the same genetic code. It is very possible that one of the two twins will get type two diabetes and the other one won’t. So just from that alone, you can understand that it’s not clearly not 100% genetic. Then another one that’s interesting is that type two diabetes used to be called adult onset diabetes, right? And now, even kids are getting it, but our genes haven’t changed in 20 years, but this has changed, okay?

(00:11:46):

And then finally, if it’s a genetic disease, then why is it possible to reverse it when you change your lifestyle? So I think that is unfortunately something a lot of people hear, and it can feel quite depressing if you get the disease and you’re told it’s just genetic, there’s nothing you can do about it. I think it’s very clear now, and there’s so much evidence that shows us that we can change are outcomes when it comes to type two diabetes. And yes, it is difficult. It requires changing what you eat, how you eat. For many people, they don’t have access to healthy food, so it’s very difficult, but it is not a genetic disease. It is definitely a lifestyle disease.

Dr. Casey Means (00:12:26):

And I mean, no one’s had more of a front row seat to this than you with 3 million people in your community who I imagine are writing you every single day telling them about the health transformations they’ve had from using your amazing set of hacks. So I’d love to hear, based on what you’ve seen in your community and the different ways that you interact with your community, what are some of the most transformational changes that people have told you that they’ve had based on flattening their glucose curve? And maybe you can do the quick run through of your hacks.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:12:55):

For sure.

Dr. Casey Means (00:12:56):

I know that there’s the beautiful slides on Instagram, but maybe the quick run through of just naming them. And then what are some of the things that stick with you about what people have reversed?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:13:04):

The best thing I hear is when somebody messages me, they’re like, “Jessie, look, these are my lab results. A month ago I had type two diabetes and I no longer have it, and my doctor cannot believe it. My doctor is like, ‘How did you do that?’” So I love that because that shows me that you can be empowered with simple information and your doctor can actually be shocked because unfortunately, and you know this very well, a lot of doctors today, they’re trained to diagnose and treat a disease with medication. They don’t have the time or the training to actually understand from a lifestyle chronic perspective how do you reverse these things? So that’s my favorite. The lab results, the like a month ago and now.

Dr. Casey Means (00:13:41):

And my doctor can’t believe that. They’re shocked.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:13:44):

Yeah, my doctor brought-

Dr. Casey Means (00:13:45):

It’s not rocket science. It is literally science.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:13:48):

You see the movie scenes where there’s one doctor calling all the other doctors into the room like, “Professor George, you have to come see this.” And they’re all, “How did you reverse your type two diabetes?” They’re like, “Well, just simple hacks.” So the hacks. And so what I’ve done is I am a scientist and I took all the latest research on glucose levels and I turned it into 10 simple tips. These are free. They are actually common sense, but now from a scientific standpoint, we understand why they work so well. So top ones, have a savory breakfast, not a sweet one. Start your meals with vegetables. Never eat sugar on an empty stomach, always as dessert after a meal, after you eat, use your muscles for 10 minutes, go for a 10-minute walk, have some vinegar diluted in water before a meal, put clothing on your carbs, have a savory snack instead of a sweet one, et cetera. That’s the core.

(00:14:39):

And these have led to so many transformations, and diabetes is an easy one, but also, for example, women who had been on the birth control pill for their whole life, they get off it, they’re not ovulating anymore, and the doctor says, “Oh, you have PCOS.” And in the topic of female hormones, education is not at all where it should be. And they don’t realize that often PCOS is connected to insulin resistance. And actually too much insulin in the body creates too much testosterone in a female body, which can lead to PCOS and not ovulating and not being able to have a baby, et cetera. And so with the hacks, you can also reverse that.

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:13):

That’s amazing. Have you had people message you and say that they’ve reversed their full-blown type two diabetes?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:15:18):

Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:18):

That’s amazing.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:15:19):

Oh, yeah. Every week.

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:19):

Every week.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:15:21):

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:21):

Yeah. Things that some doctors might never see in their entire career.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:15:24):

Totally. And what I love the most is the doctors who use my work as a compliment in their practice, they’re like, “Hey, you have this condition. Read this book, use these hacks. Come back in a month and let’s see how you feel.” Because ultimately, we’re all on the same team. We’re all trying to help people live better, be healthier, reverse their conditions. So that makes me the happiest when I hear feedback from doctors saying, “Hey, I’ve been using your book in my practice for years and it’s working.” And I love that.

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:51):

That’s amazing. That’s amazing. Well, I can tell you firsthand, it’s not anything we learned in medical school, which is why this has been such an awakening for me.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:15:58):

So how do we change that?

Dr. Casey Means (00:15:59):

Yeah. Well, I was going to ask you, you said we’re all on the same team, but the pessimistic view of that is are we all on the same team? Because when you look at healthcare incentives and processed food incentives, it makes you start to wonder like, “Are we all fighting for health?” If the healthcare system actually profits more when patients are sick, which brings me to this question, and I’m sure there’s been different segments that have approached your work differently, but how have doctors and the healthcare industry, and I’d be interested in how has the processed food industry responded to your work? What kind of feedback have you gotten, support, pushback? I’d be so curious to hear.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:16:40):

So in terms of the food industry, haven’t really gotten anything because I’m not telling people never eat junk food ever again. I’m just like, “If you want to eat the Mars bar…” Which by the way, when I’m here in LA, I love Van Leeuwen Ice Cream, and so I order myself a big tub of the chocolate fudge brownie. I’m not anti-processed foods. I just want you to know that when you’re eating it’s not good for your health. And how do you eat it in a way that’s less damaging? So in terms of the food industry, nothing has happened. I don’t think anything will happen because I’m not really yet going against.

(00:17:10):

In terms of the medical community, that’s been a really interesting one. Many doctors have loved it as I explained, they use it in their practice, but then some, they see me show up. I’m 30 years old, I’m a woman, I have long nails, I have lots of Instagram followers. They’re like, “Mm-mm. We don’t believe that you have anything to add. You’re not the doctor.” I’m just a scientist, right? They’re like, “She’s not a doctor, she’s a woman.” And the sexism is crazy. But to that, I’m like, “Guys, come on.” I just feel a bit bad that they have to respond so violently to my work because they feel so threatened.

(00:17:46):

And then going past the personal thing, I’m also like, “You are allowed to be critical of my work and to question it, but I don’t want ever cynicism to turn into inaction because if you’re an old school doctor who hates me just because of what I look like, that’s not helping anyone. Ultimately, my work is helping people eat less sugar and eat more vegetables. So please give me a break.” So that’s what’s up. But I like it now. Actually, I’m like, “Yeah, let’s talk about it. Let’s talk about it live on TV.” Yeah, it come from me. At the beginning, it would destroy me like a comment on a post. I would cry for two days and I’m like, “Bring it on.” Because I know that what I’m doing is good, and I know I have the support and I have the evidence. I’m like-

Dr. Casey Means (00:18:28):

Beautiful. Yeah. Also, it’s like, show me your receipts. How many cases of type two diabetes have you for the average endocrinologist, have you reversed with high dose insulin? And just more and more metformin. And versus you can sit there and know that maybe thousands or more people have reversed PCOS, probably tons of weight loss, have type two diabetes, pre-diabetes, feeling better.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:18:56):

Yeah. I’m just feeling better, better sleep, better skin, better energy. And sometimes I do something quite fun. I will ask a doctor why they think their patient has the disease. So why do you think so many people getting-

Dr. Casey Means (00:19:08):

If glucose spikes don’t matter, how does the disease… Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:19:13):

Yeah. And it’s based on the training. But then I think the problem is sometimes when doctors have had so much training, their ego has been so inflated that they just cannot think there’s more to their training that needs to happen. And again, a doctor diagnosis and treats, and we need to compliment that. With the latest science on food, how can a doctor have the time to read all these studies?

Dr. Casey Means (00:19:32):

Right. And you hear that stat, it takes 17 years for research literature to get into clinical practice. I think that’s aggravated by the fact that sometimes the research in nutrition is poorly done. So it doesn’t make it into the research literature. But the beauty, I think, of glucose monitors and more accessible biomarker testing is that people now can just see if it’s working in their own bodies.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:19:56):

Exactly.

Dr. Casey Means (00:19:57):

And not only not everyone needs a CGM as you’ve talked about, but how can you tap into how you feel?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:20:03):

Totally.

Dr. Casey Means (00:20:04):

Right. So yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:20:05):

And one more thing I will say is that we’re talking about some doctors respond poorly, but also actually, what I like to focus on is the thousands of doctors who are actually really taking on this information, using it in their practice, and that number is increasing every day.

Dr. Casey Means (00:20:19):

That’s amazing.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:20:19):

The number of old school sexist doctors who don’t want hear about me, whatever, they’ll die eventually. I’m interested in the new generation and people want to change stuff.

Dr. Casey Means (00:20:28):

Beautiful. So you have had such a front row seat to really behavior change. I think most people following you, they want to eat better, have a better relationship with food, and improve their health. So I’m curious, in this whole journey over the past five years, what do you feel like you’ve learned about people? And what motivates people? What inspires people? And what leads to lasting behavior change?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:20:50):

I love this question. I think that’s so wonderful because my passion is behavior change, completely. And how do I get somebody from zero to one? Because we all know we should be eating better, exercising more, but actually, knowing something and then doing it, whoa, the canyon between that is very, very deep. Okay? So what I’ve learned is that most people want to be healthy, and this sounds a bit dumb, but most people are not eating in a way on purpose to create disease. Most people do not know. Most people, when they grab a fruit smoothie at the coffee shop, they are thinking, “This is going to be good for me because I feel like crap and I want to feel better.” So that’s important. The psychology, we have to remember that.

(00:21:28):

And so I’m completely against the blaming of, “Oh, they’re lazy. They don’t know what they’re eating. They’re just making bad food choices because they don’t want to eat better.” No, no, no. People want to feel good, okay, number one. And then second, people hate diets. Diets suck. I hate diets. I wish we never had a single diet ever again. And people want stuff that is not restrictive, that is incredibly easy, incredibly effective, and doesn’t make them feel like they have to give up a part of their life. And that’s the hacks. And that’s why they’re a little bit magical in a way because they hit all those marks. They’re super simple. You don’t have to restrict any foods. You can do them right now, right away. They’re very, very, very easy and they have a huge impact on how you feel, right? So I think people want these kinds of magic solutions. And once in a while there’s science that comes along that actually gives you that solution. But yeah, I think people want to feel good and… Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:22:28):

I agree. There’s such a message in the conventional healthcare system around patients being non-compliant and lazy. And if people wanted to be healthy, they would. And I’ve always really pushed back on that because the whole-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:22:40):

Good.

Dr. Casey Means (00:22:40):

… system is designed to make it easier and cheaper to make choices that are unhealthy. And then we get sucked into the addictive cycle of wanting more of that because of the dopamine reactions that you talk so much about. And so I do also so firmly believe people want to be healthy. No one wants their kid to be sick. No one wants to be sick. But we actually think that some of these choices that we’re making are healthy, like the fruit juice, like just plain oatmeal on an empty stomach in the morning. And so some of those with the Levels community have been really magic moments where something they actually thought-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:23:13):

I love that. Yes.

Dr. Casey Means (00:23:13):

… was healthy is not serving them. And they don’t have to necessarily give it up completely.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:23:19):

Exactly.

Dr. Casey Means (00:23:22):

I will sometimes still add a tiny bit of juice to a full sparkling water to just give it a little bit of flavor. It doesn’t spike my gulas at all, like two tablespoons, but it makes it a lot more fun.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:23:31):

What you said is super interesting. It’s things that you thought were good for you. You actually realize with a glucose monitor, “Oh my god, it’s creating a big spike.” And I think it’s important to categorize things into two categories. In one category, there’s just stuff that everybody knows is bad for you. Like that Van Leeuwen’s chocolate fudge brownie that I delivered in my apartment at 11:00 PM, I’m like, I know that’s not good for me. I know that’s a pleasure decision because I want ice cream, okay? But the problem I have is with the foods that look healthy and are actually super damaging, so dried mangoes, fruit smoothies, ice ables, honey covered, whatever. And that’s where people get lost because they’re choosing all these foods and the marketing is so powerful and there’s so much money behind these companies. And that’s really what I want to help people see clearly that that is not a health food, that is also dessert. That should be in the chocolate ice cream category.

Dr. Casey Means (00:24:24):

Yeah. And just demystify that and get people more in a clear communication with their bodies. I love how you talk about this. You’ve had such an incredible health journey and had issues with depersonalization with your body and how glucose fits into that. I had be curious, just since you’re talking about this confusion between us and food, how did that develop for you? How learning about glucose learning how your body could speak to you actually helped heal some of these more psychological symptoms you are having with your body, and I guess more broadly how understanding your glucose actually can improve our, I don’t know, deeper elements of our life, like our relationship to our bodies, maybe even our personal development by and large. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:25:15):

Completely. Well, I have a very unique story and there’s no studies to support this, but this is just my story. So after an accident when I was a teenager, I started having a lot of these mental health problems. So depression, anxiety, depersonalization, which is the worst thing in the whole world. And it feels like you’re not in your body anymore. It’s horrible. I really don’t wish it upon my worst enemy. Not that I have enemies, but it’s horrible. And so the problem was I was 19 years old. I was living in London, I was studying mathematics. Nobody around me was talking about health, trauma processing, nervous systems. So I was just lost. And I was lost like this for 10 years with these episodes of depersonalization that will come on, and I had no clue what was triggering them. I was like, “Oh, I guess it’s just happening again.”

(00:26:01):

And I felt so lost because you get to a state, you lose all agency and you lose all sense of control over your own life when these things come on and you don’t even know why they’re happening. And so finally, the thing that changed my life and why I became so interested in glucose is that I wore a glucose monitor, so this was 10 years later, and I didn’t think anything would come of it because I don’t have diabetes. The narrative had been glucose is for people with diabetes, no diabetes, no glucose problem. And what I saw, Casey, changed my life.

(00:26:34):

One morning I started feeling one of these episodes coming on and I had just worn a glucose monitor for three, four days. I check my glucose monitor and what do I see? A massive, massive, massive glucose spike to 165. And something clicked in my head. I said, “Wait a minute. This spike is caused by what I had for breakfast 35 minutes ago, and this depersonalization episode is coming on at the same time as this spike. Maybe they’re connected. Maybe the spike is causing something in my brain to react to cause those symptoms.” Now, I understand it quite well. I’m like, “Well, yeah, inflammation very simply, cortisol stress in the body, bam, releases symptoms.” And it changed everything.

(00:27:19):

I thought, “Oh, wait a minute. Maybe if I start looking at my food, I can already start helping my mental health a little bit.” And that created the baseline for my health journey and my healing. But it took me 10 freaking years of not connecting my lifestyle to my mental health at all. I was like, stuff I do, stuff I eat, and then mental health, no connections, separate entities. And that’s also how you’re trained to see them in the medical field. It’s like, “Oh, yeah, mental health? Okay, well go see a psychiatrist, take meds for that, but don’t look at what you’re doing or eating or how you’re living or stress or anything.”

Dr. Casey Means (00:27:53):

Yeah. And then you showed this in such a large population in the research you actually did for your second book, The Glucose Goddess Method. Am I right in saying that you had 2,700 people go through your program that’s presented in the book-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:28:08):

Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:28:08):

… and you chose four hacks to the book that you stack week over week. I’d love for you to talk about what those hacks are, why you chose those four, and then what did the results show? Which some of which touch on mental health.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:28:21):

So in my first book and the one here on the table, Glucose Revolution, there were 10 hacks. And after this first book, my readers asked me to help them get started even more. So I was already feeling like this was quite easy to use in terms of behavior change, but people wanted more. They wanted to know which hack to start with, how and to have recipes. And that’s why I built the second book, the method, which is the foremost important hacks. So we have breakfast, vinegar, veggies, and movement. I’m going to go through them.

(00:28:50):

Breakfast. So the first and most powerful and most annoying most people hack is the savory breakfast. So in order to have steady glucose levels for your whole day, you need to have a savory breakfast that keeps you nice and steady. So built around protein, whatever that can be. It can be tofu, leftover, smoked salmon. It can be eggs, it can be Greek yogurt, it can be protein, powder, nuts, whatever. Then some healthy fats. Okay? That’s the base of your savory breakfast. You can, if you want, add a slice of toast or a whole fruit. But during a savory breakfast, we completely avoid anything sweet. So no honey, no jam, no fruit juice, no smoothies, no cereal, no muley, no granola, et cetera. That sets you up for your whole day. And the reason in the method I start with this hack is because truly it is the most important one to start with. You’re like, “Yes.”

Dr. Casey Means (00:29:44):

Yes. Yes. It gets you after glucose roller coaster, you can’t really recover after a huge spike in the morning because then you’re bouncing around for the rest of the day.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:29:50):

So for example, this morning I had leftover salmon cakes, some green beans and some rice and some cheese, and I just treat breakfast as a normal day as we should.

Dr. Casey Means (00:30:00):

I had Brussels sprouts, ground bison from leftovers of last night. I threw some tricolored beans on top and sauerkraut and avocado.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:30:10):

Perfect.

Dr. Casey Means (00:30:11):

Yeah, it’s weird, but felt great.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:30:14):

That’s good. Yeah, you feel amazing.

Dr. Casey Means (00:30:15):

You are full. Yeah, and now it’s stable.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:30:17):

It’s 3:00 PM and we feel amazing. No crash. We don’t need to drink a Red Bull. Totally. So week one is savory breakfast, then week two is vinegar. Now vinegar is super interesting. And when I first discovered the science, I was like, “Huh, there’s something here.” I thought it was maybe just another wellness fad. But in week two, what we do is that once a day we have a vinegar drink before we eat a meal. Vinegar drink is super simple. You take one tablespoon of vinegar, it can be any type of vinegar, and then you dilute it in water, sparkling water, you can add some tea, some lemon, some whatever. Don’t add any sugar, obviously.

(00:30:51):

And this is really cool because vinegar contains a molecule called acetic acid that slows down the digestion of carbs in your stomach and reduces the glucose spike of your meal by up to 30%. So that’s week two. That’s a fun one. Week three is the veggie starter. Okay, so why the veggie starter? Because there was this one super cool study that showed that if you eat the elements of a meal in a specific order, you can cut the glucose spike by up to 75%.

Dr. Casey Means (00:31:24):

75%, it’s crazy.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:31:25):

It’s crazy. And the correct order is veggies first, then proteins and fats, and then starches and sugars. And so from this hack, I extracted the most important piece of information, which is veggies first. So in week three, we create a veggie starter, and we have that at the beginning of one of our meals per day. It can be some sliced tomatoes with sea salt. It can be your super fancy roasted broccoli with tahini and whatever, just some veggies. Okay? That’s week three.

(00:31:53):

And then week four is the movement week. So use your muscles for 10 minutes after one meal a day, and you can go for a walk. You can clean your messy apartment, if you’re like me. You can play with your kids. You can do some calf raises because one of your muscles in your calf is very good at soaking up glucose. So you can do this at your desk at work, you can do some calf raises for 10 minutes. Nobody will know, and you’ll be reducing your glucose spike because as your muscles contract, they look for glucose in your bloodstream and they can use some of the glucose from the meal you just had.

(00:32:27):

Now, to your question about the results. So for any scientist listening, what I did was not a proper placebo controlled triple whatever randomized clinical trial. We are just talking about an experiment. So for my second book, I recruited people off Instagram, and I asked them to go through these four weeks and to tell me hello. It went for them and what happened? So after these four weeks, adding the four hacks, not changing anything else, not cutting out any foods apart from the hacks, you can do whatever you want. You can drink your wine, you can have your chocolate ice cream, whatever. The results were amazing. After four weeks, 90% of people cut their cravings. 89% of people were less hungry, 70% of people had more energy just with these four hacks. And then you have amazing stats, like 41% of people with diabetes improved their diabetes numbers, 50% of people slept better, et cetera, et cetera, et cetera. This is so easy and so powerful.

Dr. Casey Means (00:33:23):

That is absolutely incredible. I can’t even imagine how many tens of thousands of people that has touched. This is just 2,700 people in your study, but you’ve sold 1.5 million books. So it’s just crazy to think about how much positive impact that has. I also wanted to mention, I remember from your book with the vinegar not only can have a 30% decrease in glucose spikes, but also a 20% decrease in insulin. Is that right?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:33:49):

Yup, very important.

Dr. Casey Means (00:33:50):

Which we, of course, care so, so much of that more about. Right. Which brings me to another question. You are so deep in the metabolic health space, other than glucose, what are you tracking regularly in yourself in terms of biomarkers?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:34:05):

I do once a year a pretty complete panel. Everything from insulin to ApoB to C-reactive protein to vitamins to hormones. I have this cooling mattress on my bed, and so that tells me my sleep cycles, but I don’t really track it that closely. But yeah, once a year, I just do a big panel. Right now I’m supplementing with omega threes a vitamin B because I was deficient. And then my fasting insulin is great. I’m just monitoring everything right now. I’m trying to get my APoB be a bit lower. It’s not high, but it’s not the perfect optimal range. So I’m always trying to make improvements, but I feel like once a year, I could even do it once every six months. But for anybody listening, I think the most important ones to measure are APoB and fasting insulin. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:34:53):

Yeah. I agree so much. And then you’re putting CRP in there, which of course is an inflammatory marker. You talk about this in the book, that it’s this swirl of inflammation and oxidative stress and glucose spikes and glycation and all of it that work together.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:35:05):

Yeah. What do you track apart from glucose?

Dr. Casey Means (00:35:06):

I’m pretty much on the same boat, and it’s so funny, you’re like, “Yeah, just the standard ones.” But of course all those tests are things that people aren’t testing in conventional projects. I think that in our world, they’re definitely standard fasting insulin and-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:35:19):

It’s expensive too.

Dr. Casey Means (00:35:21):

It is, yeah. So I believe fasting insulin is the most important tests that we can really do other than understanding our glucose levels, because as you’ve talked about so much fasting insulin is going to change possibly long before-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:35:35):

5 to 10 years.

Dr. Casey Means (00:35:35):

… our fasting glucose changes. So we really need to see that for that early marker of like what’s going on with this incredible hormone that’s going to have a huge impact on our weight gain and all this stuff. So fasting insulin, triglycerides, I love uric acid is another metabolic marker downstream of fructose because that’s one that hides several, others, CRP. I generally do function health, which is 109 biomarkers for less than $500, and you never have to talk to a doctor to get those labs. So it’s an amazing startup that’s making-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:36:06):

Nice.

Dr. Casey Means (00:36:06):

… labs more accessible. And then I do the levels panel, which is just five key metabolic biomarkers, more like every three months to just keep on top of it. So that’s triglycerides, hemoglobin A1C, uric acid, APoB, and fasting insulin. So we try to make what is going to be the most affordable, but maximal signal for health.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:36:26):

Yes, biggest bang for your buck.

Dr. Casey Means (00:36:27):

Biggest bang for your buck because yeah, because $500 is a lot. And so for a fraction of that, we give people those five tests. When I think about lab tests, it’s different than I think what I was taught in medical school, which is like, “Okay, if this marker is high in the red, we need to bring it down and if this biomarker is high, we need to bring it down.” It’s more about how do we look at all these tests and think of them, what are they saying about what’s going on in the body on a physiologic perspective, on a cellular level? And then how do you read the tea leaves of what they’re all saying together?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:37:03):

What is this obsession with breaking things up into silos? Even you could say already psychiatry and metabolic health are already split up, for example. But then even within one panel that a doctor will provide to someone, they’re also going to split up each thing and look at them as completely independent of each other. It’s like this obsession with breaking things down into silos. Why is that?

Dr. Casey Means (00:37:27):

I think it’s got so many causes to it, but I think a lot of it goes back to the way that healthcare in the United States was set up from a billing standpoint. When we really decided that we were going to bill things a specific way, we had to code everything with an individual code. So it trained doctors to think of the body in all these little separate parts and to code everything separately. So you can code for high cholesterol and you can code for high triglycerides or high glucose, these different things, but really what that means is metabolic dysfunction, but that’s not something that we think about. So really it’s just reading the tea leaves between all these things. So when I’m getting labs… Another lab I love is GGT. It’s technically a liver function test. And I also love liver function tests to understand a little bit what’s happening with insulin and fatty liver and stuff like that.

(00:38:19):

But GGT is an oxidative stress marker, which is never ordered. And so with CRP, which is inflammation and GGT, which is oxidative stress, and then of course fasting insulin and fasting glucose is which telling me how much is the cell trying to block glucose from getting in, together, I can get a sense of, “Okay, what is that physiology that we talk about and that you talk about in your book of inflammation, stress, and glucose, what’s it actually doing?” So it’s really like, how can I see inside my body with these tests as opposed to is it up? Bring it down, is it up? Bring it down. It’s like, “What is it saying?” So that’s how I think about the labs.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:38:56):

Isn’t that going to be great when hopefully in 50 years people look back and be like, “Do you remember what they were doing in the 2020s? How weird? Why were they looking at all these things individually?” I have so much hope. I think we’re going in the right direction, but there’s so much work left to be done.

Dr. Casey Means (00:39:09):

I love that. I love hope. Hope is beautiful. And we’re here in our colorful outfits. We clearly have hope.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:39:15):

I know.

Dr. Casey Means (00:39:16):

So a question that a lot of people have is there anything when it comes to supplements that actually impacts glucose levels in a meaningful way and in the right ways, not just causing you to squirt out more insulin but actually improves metabolic health? And so I’m going to use this as a segue to talk about Anti-Spike Formula, which you released when this episode comes out. You’ll have released it about a month and a half ago. So tell us about this new product and teach us a little bit about supplements.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:39:43):

Oh my god. Okay, I’m so excited. Okay, let me tell you the genesis of this whole thing. So similarly to your listeners, my audience has asked me for a long time for supplements, and especially when it came to vinegar, a lot of people said, “Ooh, I hate the taste of vinegar. Can I take a vinegar capsule? Can I take a fiber pill instead of the veggie starter?” So I put it off for a little while, but then about two years ago I said, “Okay, it’s time for me to look at this because I saw so much stuff on the market that was taking advantage of people.”

(00:40:13):

For example, you know that one company that makes the vinegar gummies with three grams of sugar in them? So I was like, “It is time. The time is now. We must fight.” So I looked at all the latest ingredient research and I found these very recently discovered properties of four plants, okay? And these plants have existed since forever. But recently, scientists have found that they have an amazing impact on new glucose levels.

(00:40:40):

The plants are mulberry leaf, sidebar at mulberry leaf is what is given to silkworms for food, just random, I think, it’s funny, but mulberry leaf extract, lemon peel extract, antioxidants from green vegetables, and cinnamon. And so I put these all together into what I’m calling anti-spike formula. And this product does two things. It has an immediate action, so when you take it before a meal, it cuts the glucose spike of the meal by up to 40%, which is more than vinegar, and also the insulin spike by up to 40%.

Dr. Casey Means (00:41:11):

Wow.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:41:12):

How does it do this? Yes. So the mulberry leaf contains a molecule called DNJ. DNJ is so badass, so she grabs up to 40% of the sugar molecules from the food you just ate. And instead of letting them go through to your bloodstream, she brings them down to your microbiome.And so your gut microbes then feed on these undigested carbs very happily, creating short chain fatty acids, having the best time of their life, and you just ate your chocolate ice cream with 40% smaller impact on your glucose levels. That’s step one.

(00:41:48):

And step two, because of all the polyphenols, antioxidant cinnamon, it has also been proven to reduce fasting glucose levels over 6 to 12 weeks. So helping people put their prediabetes, diabetes remission slowly and also increasing GLP-1, which is the satiety hormone that all the ozempic, it’s et cetera, are working on. So this is to me, if you’re going to take one supplement for your glucose levels, this is by far the best on the market. Incredible science also just beautiful because I’m obsessed with design and making stuff gorgeous. So this is your bestie. If you want a new hack to supplement the food habits you’re going to be putting into face, this is the one anti-spike formula. It’s my baby, and I love it.

Dr. Casey Means (00:42:30):

It is incredible. That is so fascinating about mulberry leaf extract. So in a sense, is it just it’s repackaging glucose in the gut into a different form that can then go farther down and the microbiome needs it?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:42:42):

Actually, DNJ acts on your enzymes and it’s Alpha-glucosidase inhibitor, so it actually prevents those enzymes from breaking down the carbs, and so the carbs just pass through to your intestine without having being broken down.

Dr. Casey Means (00:42:56):

Is that also the enzyme that’s involved with vinegar? Is that-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:42:59):

Different one.

Dr. Casey Means (00:43:00):

Different one. Okay.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:43:01):

Acetic acid acts on Alpha-amylase, this is Alpha-glucosidase. Same concept, but the vinegar actually slows down digestion, and ultimately everything gets digested. This one actually prevents some of the smaller carb chains from being digested. It’s all the same concept. It’s all about how can you eat the sugar and then makes sure it’s coming into your bloodstream either more slowly or less. It’s all the same philosophical approach.

Dr. Casey Means (00:43:31):

That is so interesting. There’s been some supplements that I’ve seen that I’ve dug into the research, and it seems like what they might be doing is actually causing you to just secrete more insulin.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:43:41):

Yeah, girl. And there’s even studies showing that’s the case for chromium and berberine.

Dr. Casey Means (00:43:43):

That’s chromium. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:43:44):

It’s very bad because you can reduce glucose spikes by adding insulin to the mix, but that’s like fixing somebody who is going through alcohol withdrawal by giving them more alcohol. It’s not going to help. It may appear on the surface like it’s working, but it’s not actually solving the issue, and that’s something we have to be super, super cautious about.

Dr. Casey Means (00:44:08):

Yeah. So you landed on these four. And then lemon peel, I’ve never heard of that one before.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:44:13):

Yeah, so that’s the one that contains the polyphenols that have this 6 to 12 week impact on fasting glucose, on inflammation, on HOMA-IR ratios and on GLP-1.

Dr. Casey Means (00:44:23):

Amazing.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:44:23):

Then the antioxidants from the green vegetables, that’s a custom blend I developed because polyphenols is so powerful and I really wanted to pack some in there. And then cinnamon has been studied, but for such a long time and has benefits as it adds up over time. But really, the two stars and the two ones that have the most clinical trials that are the most recent and interesting are the mulberry and the lemon peel extract. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:44:46):

Amazing. And is this safe for anyone to take?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:44:51):

Yeah, it’s just plants. It’s plants. If you have a medical condition, talk to your doctor.

Dr. Casey Means (00:44:54):

Ask your doctor. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:44:55):

But yes, it’s vegan, it’s just plants. And when you talk about plant extracts, it’s like saying water. Well, there’s lots of different types of water. There’s water in lead pipes, there’s water in a plastic bottle, there’s water from a source. These extracts, I have chosen them to be the highest quality and the best types, most powerful extracts. So honestly, there’s nothing like this on the market. It’s truly the best in the game, and I’m obsessive, and I’ve been working on this for a long time now, and I’m so excited. It’s finally out.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:27):

Yeah. How soon before a meal do you take it?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:29):

Right before.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:29):

Right.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:30):

So right before up to 10 minutes before, but basically you go like, “Hm, I’m going to have a chocolate cake now.” And you go anti-spike hoop, and then you eat it immediately afterwards.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:38):

Wow. Have you tried it with vinegar as well?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:41):

Yes. You can actually stack the hacks if you want.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:44):

Stack it. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:44):

They don’t interact in any negative way.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:48):

Oh my gosh.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:48):

You can stack this with vinegar. You can stack this with a veggie starter. That’s the whole point. I know this sounds like a magic pill, but this should be an extra tool.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:56):

For sure.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:45:57):

Not replacing everything else. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:45:59):

Yeah, absolutely. I’m so excited for you.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:00):

Thank you, Casey.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:01):

Congratulations. I bet it is a big project to create your own supplement, so I’m so excited for you.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:06):

I’m just obsessed with all the little details. Is the DG on the cap and everything. I’m just really proud.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:12):

And there’s other special thing that comes with it.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:13):

Yes. So when you subscribe, you get the pillbox so you can take 15 capsules in your purse with it.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:19):

I love it. And now everyone’s bringing around their-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:21):

Vinegar.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:22):

… dropper bottles because of you.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:23):

I know.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:24):

Everyone’s got their dropper. I bet the stock of dropper bottles has gone up because of you.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:28):

Vinegar has gone up. And interestingly, this is more powerful than vinegar. But then again, vinegar is much cheaper. So if you can’t afford a $50 bottle, half cheap vinegar from in the supermarket, it also is going to help you. This is for those who can afford to buy this extra super powerful thing.

Dr. Casey Means (00:46:46):

While we’re on vinegar, we are going to get to some listener questions at the end, but someone asked, how long before a meal should you take the vinegar?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:46:54):

Several timings have been studied, zero, 10, 20 minutes. What I do is I try to take it maybe like five to 10 minutes before eating as a little pre-food cocktail. But also some studies have shown that even if you have vinegar during the meal, it also helps. So do whatever is easiest for you. Don’t stress out too much, but if you can choose like five, 10 minutes is perfect.

Dr. Casey Means (00:47:15):

Amazing. You mentioned mulberry leaf extract impacts GLP-1. Very interesting. I’d love to ask your perspective on the huge wave of GLP-1 agonists that are taking over the world. A lot of people think that this is the solution to the obesity and metabolic disease epidemic. What are your thoughts?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:47:39):

Okay. Thought number one, isn’t it wild that we’ve created a food environment that is so toxic that now we need to pill to counteract what we’re eating?

Dr. Casey Means (00:47:48):

It’s wild.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:47:49):

So that’s wild. Second thing that’s interesting, so GLP-1 is that hormone that tells you that you’re really full. After a big meal, you’re like, “I cannot.” Even if your aunt is like, “Have some more cake.” You’re like, “Auntie Susie, I just can’t.” One of the reasons to feel that way is because lot of GLP-1 going around. And these agonists like Ozempic, Wegovy, et cetera, what they actually do, and I know you know this, but it’s really interesting, they don’t actually increase GLP-1. They trick your brain into thinking there’s more GLP-1 around, right? So you’re not actually producing more of the satiety hormone. Naturally, your brain is just being lied to.

(00:48:22):

With anti-spike, what actually has been shown is that after six weeks, you have increased by 15% your natural production of GLP-1. So you’re not tricking your brain into thinking you’re fuller than you are, but your microbiome and all that good stuff has improved in order to help you feel fuller for longer. But listen, it’s wild. I think it’s incredible. For all these drugs, I’m 50% in awe, like wow. 50%, I wouldn’t say I was going to go for anxious about it. I don’t know a little bit saddened that this is what it’s come to. You know what I mean? It sucks. It sucks. And again, it’s big food and big pharma working perfectly in concert. And it does remind me a little bit of, for example, type two diabetes and insulin, all the diabetes drugs. It’s taking a drug that’s going to allow you to exist in this landscape of food that is so bad for you. What do you think?

Dr. Casey Means (00:49:23):

Yeah. I’m with you. I love that you just in response to that question named an emotion, I feel like so many people jump onto it with the facts, and I love that. It just really resonates. I was thinking, what is the feeling I feel, and you said sadness. I think I feel a sense of disillusionment or disappointment that we have been blessed with these incredible minds as humans, and we are somehow not using our eyes and our minds to see what’s really going on here, which like you said, is this perfect relationship between big food and big pharma. I would add in big ag in some ways, like the chemical industry who have over $10 trillion of vested interest in making us think that the solution is not actually quite simple, which is real food and in many ways understanding our glucose levels and stabilizing them.

(00:50:28):

There’s such big industries that have such powerful marketing and such a grip on our mainstream media. 60% of news networks advertising comes from pharma. And so that we have somehow as a population been blinded to the reality of what’s happening, which is that a totally toxic food system and a healthcare system that has poor incentives have driven us to think that these things on our plates are normal and they’re not. They’re poisoning our biology. And so you don’t take, it’s the simple analogy of if you had a fish in a super dirty fish tank, would you clean the fish tank and put the fish in fresh water or would you just-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:51:14):

Put chemicals.

Dr. Casey Means (00:51:15):

… medicate the fish? It seems so obvious when we say that, but that’s exactly, I feel like what these medications are doing.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:51:22):

Capitalism. Money.

Dr. Casey Means (00:51:23):

Yeah, money. Money.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:51:24):

And it’s not as simple. There’s this wonderful guy, Chris van Tulleken, and he just wrote a book called Ultra Process People, and I’m going to butcher this, but he explains basically that it’s not as simple as just saying, “Oh, tax this food. Tax the food companies. Tax ultra processors.” Because actually, for example, our pensions are dependent on those companies doing well, right? So it’s not just like, “Oh, they’re bad, prevent them from doing stuff.” It’s like, no, it’s actually integrated into everybody’s lives, and so we need to actually work with the food industry to create products that are less harmful, but are still making money because it’s still a business and it’s still a situation where they need to show profit to their shareholders. A lot of them being you and me.

Dr. Casey Means (00:52:05):

Yeah. Yeah. Well, I think that’s where there’s such a brilliance in what you’re doing because by spreading awareness to people about what is really going to serve their health and their bodies, waking people up to these things, and then like you said, with behavior hinge, gently moving them into it so it’s accessible. It’s a gentle path towards getting to all of a sudden where you just don’t crave these unhealthy foods. Well, what then leads to is consumer decision making being different and people wanting different products, wanting healthier real foods. And I think in many ways that’s going to be the quickest way to change some of these huge companies, they’re going to accommodate consumer demand. So it’s this cycle, and I think it starts with awareness.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:52:46):

It’s interesting. And I changed a little bit my view on this because when I first started I thought the only thing we need to do is educate the consumer. And now I’m realizing, yes, that’s very important, but we also need to act at the systemic level and actually push regulation so that food companies cannot advertise to kids. Super ultra processed foods cannot put on a full of sugar cereal box. Good for you, healthy for your heart. We also need to make sure that there’s checks and balances in that situation, but we need to do both. And I learned that from 23andMe actually by giving people access to their genetic data and their genetic insights, you’re educating the consumer and the people and then they go to their doctors and make better decisions. And you need work from the top and the bottom at the same time.

Dr. Casey Means (00:53:27):

Yes. And that gets into some of this incredible work that you’re doing that I don’t think that many people maybe know about, but you’re doing incredible advocacy work.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:53:35):

Well, it’s just starting. It’s just starting.

Dr. Casey Means (00:53:37):

But it’s so cool. Can you tell us a little bit about Bite Back?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:53:40):

For sure. Listen, at the moment, I’m just getting into meetings, understanding what’s going on. So there’s really cool organizations in the UK that are fighting for better legislation that are trying to create policy change and are trying to let the government understand that we need to push these agendas. For example, the advertising to kids or the Health Halos, et cetera.

(00:54:01):

I’m just learning, but there’s a few organizations that I love. One is incredible. It’s called Bite Back 2030, and they are educating teens on food marketing and they’re calling out the fact that the NHS, for example, National Health Service in the UK, in their official app, they recommend processed foods as good things to eat, like a chocolate mousse dessert or an energy drink, lots of sugar in it. So they’re doing super awesome calling out work. And right now, I’m not doing much, I’m just resharing their work and trying to drive to their programs, but I am loving this. I think it’s amazing and I’m so excited to use my platform in the future to do more of that. It’s just going to be championing stuff that’s already going on, right?

Dr. Casey Means (00:54:47):

That’s amazing.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:54:48):

And using my platform and my followers and my voice to be able to bring attention and more support to these initiatives.

Dr. Casey Means (00:54:54):

That’s so cool. That’s so cool. Yeah. I was looking at the Bite Back website and-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:54:58):

Very cool.

Dr. Casey Means (00:54:58):

It’s cool. And it’s teenagers teaching other teenagers about how they’re being suckered.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:55:03):

Manipulated, yes.

Dr. Casey Means (00:55:06):

I’m going to just butcher this. I don’t remember the publication, I don’t remember the year anything. I just remember the moral of the story of the study I read years ago that was about high school students and how you get them to eat healthily. And it’s like, it’s not education educating them. It’s not yelling at them from their parents, it’s not forcing it. It’s really two things. It’s like what are their friends doing? So if friends or community and family habits. But the biggest one was if you can make them feel, especially teenage boys, like they’re being used by the system and suckered and profited off of, it sparks this sense of rebellion. So to get kids to basically not eat from the vending machines, the best way to do it was to tell them how they were basically being used-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:55:53):

Fascinating.

Dr. Casey Means (00:55:54):

… in a way that they didn’t really realize. So I love that. It’s like getting it, if you can incite that sense of defiant rage and that motivates me so much. It’s actually been something that’s really helped me. I’ve never been a big drinker, but I’m kind of at a place in my life where I really want to just stop drinking alcohol and starting to think about, “Wow, the alcohol industry has normalized this.” And in a way they’re taking my life force every time I choose to drink and taking away, if my, let’s say, main goal in life, which I would say it is spiritual development. How is the alcohol industry convincing me that it’s actually not taking away from that? So I think that that something about that energy that I got from the Bite Back website feels very exciting-

Jessie Inchauspé (00:56:41):

Spot on.

Dr. Casey Means (00:56:42):

… getting kids to be pissed off at how they’re being taken advantage of. I don’t know.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:56:48):

Absolutely. Absolutely. And we should all be pissed off about all the misleading marketing and the food halos. And there’s nothing that me more often going through the aisles of a supermarket, all the dried foods and all the organic, no added sugars, vegan, gluten-fee. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (00:57:03):

Oh my gosh, I love it. We’re hearing what pisses off glucose status. Okay. Question for you. You and your team I’m sure are constantly scouring the research for what’s the latest in the metabolic health research. So I’m curious if there’s any exciting research that’s come across your desk recently that might make it into a new hack in the future? Or is there anything that’s exciting to you about the metabolic health research right now?

Jessie Inchauspé (00:57:27):

I think over the past few months, there’s two things that stick out. One has to do with coffee. Yeah. So if you’ve had a poor night’s sleep, if you’re tired, okay? If your system is tired, it is better to drink your coffee after breakfast than before breakfast. It helps regulate your glucose levels better for the rest of the day. Now, small study 20 people still quite interesting because we know that coffee can increase our stress hormones. So maybe that’s something we can always apply, which is coffee after breakfast instead of before when we can. And the other one that I’m super excited about has nothing to do with food. It’s showing us that actually our glucose levels can be impacted by practices, for example, by grounding. So grounding is the process of putting your bare feet onto the ground. So it can be the grass, it can be the beach, it can be just the ground somewhere, and this reduces inflammation in your body and lowers your fasting glucose levels.

(00:58:26):

So in the study they ground people for, I think, it’s two hours, 10 hours, 15 hours. They do it with this funny machine where the bed is actually hooked up to a socket that actually grounds the voltage. But you can do this just by going for a walk barefoot somewhere, that I’m very excited about. And I think mental health has always been such a strong passion of mine because of my own issues. And I think in the future, I want to focus a lot on that and the brain and how can we teach people hacks similar to these food hacks, but in the mental health space, but also how do we visualize that? Because one of the strengths of my work is that you see visually the glucose monitor data to explain the hacks. So I’m still trying to figure out how we’re going to show visually the impact of something on your nervous system because HRV, you can show HRV heart rate availability, but it’s not super exciting. I don’t know.

Dr. Casey Means (00:59:13):

Ooh, that is fascinating.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:59:14):

Where is the brain? Do we show some activations of different brain section? Do we show skin voltage? I don’t know. This is my gem. I’ll let you know when I’ve figured it out.

Dr. Casey Means (00:59:23):

That’s beautiful. So something down the road with something with visual agent.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:59:28):

For sure.

Dr. Casey Means (00:59:28):

When you were talking, I was thinking something you have done that is so amazing is really proving that point of a picture is worth a thousand words. Because what I think really broke you onto the scene was showing your glucose curves and you could literally give someone, I think, 100 scientific papers saying that like vinegar and Alpha-amylase, and it’s like one picture could be the thing that changes it.

Jessie Inchauspé (00:59:52):

Yeah. One thing I love so much is there’s this organization in the UK that uses my graphs with their community members who are trying to reverse diabetes. And they sent me a letter saying, “Jessie, your graphs have been used by people who cannot read and who have mental disabilities, but with just the pictures they’ve been able to understand and that is the best.” I could even remove the words from the graph work.

Dr. Casey Means (01:00:13):

And people would get it. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:00:14):

And I just love that.

Dr. Casey Means (01:00:15):

Oh my gosh, that’s so beautiful.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:00:16):

It’s so cool, right? Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (01:00:18):

Speaking of that and the mental things, I think that a lot of people and I have been in this boat before in my life, are gripped by their cravings and cravings are basically dominating a lot of their mind share in their life. Can you just talk a little bit about basically the relationship between glucose spikes and cravings, and what you’ve seen in your community with people essentially changing the way they feel with sugar?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:00:44):

Yeah. A couple of things. A really interesting study showed that when your glucose levels are dropping, it activates the craving center in your brain. And it’s something that you cannot really fight against. It’s a biological reaction to glucose levels dropping. And when do glucose levels drop after spikes? So if you eat in a way that creates a spike, then about 90 minutes later you’re going to have this drop and that’s going to tell you case you eat a cookie, right? And that’s something we’ve all felt and it’s hard to fight against it. And the solution is not actually to fight against it. The solution is to try to fix the underlying issue of the glucose spike. So using the hacks for example.

(01:01:18):

And then what happens is that when you eat something sweet, you’re still getting this very enjoyable dopamine hit, the pleasure molecule in your brain, but if you get it with less of a glucose spike, you’re going to have fewer consequences on the cravings’ rollercoaster. So all of a sudden when you eat your cookie, you’re not setting off a 12-hour craving marathon where every 90 minutes you want more sugar, but instead you’re enjoying it for the pleasure without the follow on rollercoaster and cravings and sugar addiction. And that’s the key, right? It’s not about cutting out sugar, it’s about eating it in a way that doesn’t create more cravings for the rest of the day. That’s the key.

Dr. Casey Means (01:01:57):

And that’s freedom. Yeah. You have a story in Glucose Revolution about a woman who never left the house without snacks. And I literally have been there. I remember in medical school when I think I was much more on the glucose rollercoaster. It’s like I always wanted a fun size candy in my purse just in case I had a craving because cravings, they grip you. And so it’s beautiful that there are these strategies that aren’t about deprivation that can help people ease that. And it’s just also so interesting from also that bigger picture perspective of so many religious traditions, spiritual traditions talk about how craving and wanting and attachment is the root of suffering. And I bet a lot of people relate to that, that their cravings are causing them suffering in some way and that it’s almost like this interesting relationship between glucose hacks and actually that bigger picture sense of non-attachment to food love. Is that something that-

Jessie Inchauspé (01:02:52):

Another concept of the Hungry Ghost?

Dr. Casey Means (01:02:53):

I don’t know that. Yeah. The Hungry

Jessie Inchauspé (01:02:55):

Hungry Ghost is this spiritual concept that says that you’re always going to want more. It’s this ghost that lives in you and you feed it food, you feed it food, but it always wants more. And I think I used to experience this with, for example, the number of followers on my Instagram account. I was like, “I just want more followers.” And at some point I was like, “Whoa. I’m never going to be fulfilled.” There’s always going to be more followers to get, and that’s the Hungry Ghost, right? And so if you’re able to really be conscious of this, then you become freer. But in the case of cravings, because it’s coming from this ancestral part of your brain, it’s not just awareness that’s going to help you, that’s going to help reduce it. You have to fix the underlying issue you do. I love that.

Dr. Casey Means (01:03:36):

I could literally listen to you talk all day. You are amazing. And we’re going to wrap up here. Two more things I want to chat about. One is some personal questions about you, and the next is actually listener questions that I asked on Instagram, what people want us to know. And I got so many responses, so we’ll go through a couple of them. So the first question is just about what it’s like being Glucose Goddess?

(01:03:58):

So one of the things I’ve admired about you since day one and I actually feel like has evolved even over time is that you bring your full self to this work full expression, the orange shirt, fabulous hairdos, you got this beautiful fashion sense, you are showing up as yourself as a age 30 to 40 woman, it’s so cool, even though you’re in this scientific field. So you’re definitely bucking some standard norms and having this massive impact. But I just was so curious to ask you, where did this come from? How did you develop this sense of confidence and self to just bring all of you to your mission?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:04:43):

It’s funny that you say that I bring all of you because I don’t think I do.

Dr. Casey Means (01:04:46):

I know. Also, when I said that I was like, “I shouldn’t say that.”

Jessie Inchauspé (01:04:48):

No. No, it’s good. It’s good.

Dr. Casey Means (01:04:49):

It’s such a presumption.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:04:50):

No, it’s interesting. It’s interesting.

Dr. Casey Means (01:04:52):

I feel so much authenticity from you.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:04:54):

Yes, but it is still a part of me, right? There’s stuff that I never showed my personal life online and people don’t know where I live, where my friends are. So I’ve carved out the part of me that I feel like one is helpful to the mission and two that I want to put out there. So all the other stuff I just don’t show, right?

Dr. Casey Means (01:05:13):

Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:05:14):

But listen, I think it’s cool to make science sexy. I think it’s cool to create contrast. I’m obsessed with contrast. I think that’s where magic happens. We need contrast. Talking about blood sugar and also going to fashion shows and doing that, that excites me. And that’s just personal and I just dig it. So okay, so I haven’t said this of the key, but now these days I’m so comfortable doing podcasts. At the beginning I was terrified for everything, but now I’m comfortable. And so the main thing I think about when I go on a podcast now is like, “What am I going to wear?” I think about it because I think it’s important. I’m like, “How do I want to show up? How do I want to create this universe, this Glucose Goddess, the emotion?”

(01:05:59):

And I walked in and you saw I was wearing a white T-shirt that I changed because I thought, “Well, with this backdrop, the orange is going to look cool.” I just love that part of it and I’m not forcing it. It’s just I love that and I have so many more things I want to accomplish in that space merging. You can be a cool fucking scientist or a cool fucking doctor and you can also be super hot and wear all the latest stuff. Why do we have to be scientists or doctors and look like crap? We can be cool. We need to be on the cover of magazines. We don’t need just actors and models and singers. We need female scientists.

(01:06:34):

And I have so much passion for this. And of course, people will say that I’m crazy and I get a lot of criticism, but I just love this stuff. That’s the passion. And I’m doing it for the 13-year-old Jessie who saw on the cover of magazines, just the singers and the models and the actresses. And I’d be like, “You know what? This generation, we’re going to show that you can be a scientist and have brains.” So yeah, long answer, but it’s just a passion.

Dr. Casey Means (01:07:00):

I love that so much. And I think at the end of the day, it feels like it also, it is impact. You’re getting people. People love it clearly. And you have so many followers and billions of people watch your podcast. So it’s like people can say whatever they want. You’re having this monumental impact.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:07:24):

Interesting.

Dr. Casey Means (01:07:25):

I love that. It’s so inspiring.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:07:26):

Thanks, girl.

Dr. Casey Means (01:07:27):

And I think it probably is inspiring. Obviously, it’s the glucose hacks that people are, they’re just changing their lives. But I think there’s probably some other element that’s getting to people in medical school, people getting their PhDs, people who are interested in science, who are like, “Oh, I can actually be exactly who I am. And it’s totally okay.” So that’s beautiful.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:07:47):

Yeah. I never changed myself. I probably actually turned up the volume on myself more. So I was like, “If I’m going to be on social media, you got to be loud.” Let’s go.

Dr. Casey Means (01:07:56):

Yeah. Stand out.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:07:56):

Let’s go. Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (01:07:56):

Yeah, have some fun.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:07:57):

Rainbow filter. Let’s go. You know the stupid rainbow filter.

Dr. Casey Means (01:08:02):

Yes, it’s the rainbow. I know. Obsessed. Oh my gosh. Okay. Second question about you, and then we’ll get some listener questions. I can imagine with your world right now, there are endless opportunities coming at you, write another book, do a documentary, I can’t even imagine, make a supplement, be on these podcasts, et cetera, et cetera. What is your framework right now for how you’re thinking about what to say yes to and what to say no to?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:08:22):

You’re going to love it. Intuition. How does it make me feel? Sometimes I’ll get an opportunity and my first response is like, “Oh my God, this is so big.” But then I don’t feel good and I cry and I’m stressed out about it. And now I’ve learned that if I feel that way, that’s not good. Do not go there. If it feels stressful, if it feels like it’s slightly constricting me in a way that I don’t want to be constricted, I’ll just say no. And it’s so hard because I’m such a people pleaser. And so it’s been a journey. So it’s intuition, is this going to impact my freedom? Because I love being free. Yeah. And sometimes, it’s worth it. But for example, I recently got this opportunity and it was like a three-year project. I felt like that’s just too long. I don’t want to have to sign up to something so weekly for three years, it just didn’t feel good.

Dr. Casey Means (01:09:11):

So intuition, when you were answering that, it sounds like you’re also talking about body knowledge. What is your body telling you? And I think there’s a lot of people out there who have trouble feeling what’s going inside. So how did you develop that intuition?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:09:24):

Well, originally I was confused because sometimes I would… Even when I was younger, before Glucose Goddess stuff, I would be, for example, offered a job or something, and the person offering me the job was this very scary person, making me feel like shit and offering me a really bad salary. But I was like, “Oh, they must be right. They must know more than I do, so I should take it because they’re older and they’re a man and blah, blah, blah.” And now I’m understanding that if it doesn’t make you feel good and happy and excited, you just don’t go there. You just don’t go. If it makes you feel bad, you just don’t go. And it goes for relationships, for friends, for as much as you can. I’m a master editor of my life. Every week I’m like, “What do I need to edit this week?” Boom, boom, boom. And I just do it because I know that in order to create, I have to be really good about my boundaries.

(01:10:13):

So how did I develop it? Time and practice, and it’s so hard. Oh my God, it’s so hard. It’s so difficult. Sometimes you have to say no and be like, “Hey, listen, I thought about it. I’m not going to say yes this opportunity.” And it feels so scary, but then I’m super happy. So you just have to practice. It’s a muscle. It’s like today, I might be comfortable doing podcasts, but at the beginning, my first ever podcast, I was sweating so much.

Dr. Casey Means (01:10:35):

Yeah. Probably had a glucose spike.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:10:36):

Totally. I was in shambles. You just have to keep doing the thing that scares you because that’s where the growth is happening.

Dr. Casey Means (01:10:43):

Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. That’s beautiful. Gosh. It’s also amazing coming from a scientist, you’re like, it’s intuition. It’s not a spreadsheet, it’s how you feel. It’s developing body awareness. And yeah, sometimes I think I struggle a little bit with… I very much trust my intuition as well, and that’s a big driving force in my life right now. But then I wonder sometimes when my intuition says, no, I don’t want to go near that. Is there any limiting belief fear in that?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:11:11):

Because sometimes it’s an emotion, sometimes it’s intuition, and you don’t know which one it is. So to me, the intuition is quieter and it’s not always the first reaction, the first big feeling. It’s more like the feeling when you’re alone the next day and you’re in the shower. It is quieter.

Dr. Casey Means (01:11:33):

The whisper.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:11:34):

Yeah, the whisper. It’s the whisper. And sometimes I do stuff that I feel my original emotional reaction is like, “This is so scary. I feel like I’m going to die.” But I still do it because the deep down whisper is this is good growth. This is going to bring you somewhere. You see what I mean?

Dr. Casey Means (01:11:48):

And maybe bring you even more freedom. Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:11:50):

Yeah.

Dr. Casey Means (01:11:53):

Such wisdom.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:11:54):

Oh, stop. I don’t know shit, but listen, who knows. We’re all trying to figure it out.

Dr. Casey Means (01:11:59):

I love it. Thank you. That’s beautiful. And thank you for just candidly sharing about that. Okay. A couple questions from Instagram. Numero uno, what about dairy? Confusing? Treat it like sugar or no? Because it has sugar.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:12:12):

Yeah, dairy has lactose in it, which does create a small glucose spike, but that’s not where you need to be worried. I don’t think that’s at all where you should be trying to optimize. I have dairy, I handle it very well. Great source of protein, healthy fats. If you’re going to switch from, for example, whole milk to oat milk, I would say no. If you don’t want to drink dairy because of X, Y, Z reason in that case, go for unsweetened nut milks, for example. But I don’t have a big problem with dairy personally.

Dr. Casey Means (01:12:42):

I’m in the same boat. I used to think it was dairy that was causing my horrible jawline acne. In my 20s, I had acne until I was 30 everywhere. And I thought it was like, “Oh, it’s the IGF-1. But I think it was just my blood sugar was problematic. So when I got my blood sugar and my insulin under great control, I can eat full fat. And I do focus on organic and all that because… Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:13:04):

If you can, but even if you can’t, it’s okay.

Dr. Casey Means (01:13:06):

Yeah. But I think I have a much better response to full fat, of course. Like putting clothing on the glucose in that.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:13:12):

Exactly. Because if you remove the fat from dairy, you’re not changing the fact that there’s a little bit of sugar in there. Therefore, you’re just allowing the sugar to arrive into your bloodstream much quicker.

Dr. Casey Means (01:13:20):

Yeah. Beautiful. Okay. This is an interesting question. How to eat to get a faster metabolism? What is a fast metabolism actually?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:13:31):

This term I think a lot of people think of fast metabolism is like you can eat whatever you want and stay skinny, right?

Dr. Casey Means (01:13:38):

Yeah.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:13:38):

What do you think?

Dr. Casey Means (01:13:40):

I think we need to get rid of the term fast metabolism because the way I think about it is a fast metabolism is a really well-functioning metabolic system. And you can build that.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:13:51):

It goes fat.

Dr. Casey Means (01:13:52):

If I think about a mitochondria that, let’s say, one of the things that makes a mitochondria work properly is micronutrients, right? We know that you need B vitamins and magnesium and a bunch of other micronutrients to let the electron transport chain work, right? So if your super micronutrient depleted because you’re eating a fully processed diet, I would guess that your enzymes in your mitochondria aren’t working properly. So maybe that means your-

Jessie Inchauspé (01:14:18):

Slow metabolism.

Dr. Casey Means (01:14:19):

… slow metabolism, but there’s 100 other things that make mitochondria function differently, like cortisol levels and what your microbiome is doing in the short chain fatty acids as they’re creating. So I think it’s more thinking about cultivating a fast metabolism. And I’m sure there are some genetic elements to that, how your mitochondria work and whatnot. But it’s like I think this binary like I do or don’t have a fast metabolism is wrong. It’s like how do we actually, really what we’re trying to do is build better mitochondrial function. I don’t know.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:14:46):

And another important one is metabolic flexibility, right?

Dr. Casey Means (01:14:48):

Yes.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:14:49):

The ability to go from being dependent on glucose to being dependent on fat or to being able to burn glucose or fat. So I think a lot of people when they say, “I want to fast metabolism.” They’re like, I want to lose weight. I think that’s what they mean. And in that case, if you want to lose fat, one of the easiest things to do is to get your insulin levels down, right? And to use the hack so that glucose levels reduce insulin levels reduce. You’re less hungry, you have fewer cravings, you burn more fat. And then really, I think people should focus on having a flexible metabolism so that you can go six, seven, eight hours, 10 hours without eating, and you don’t have those low blood sugar. You don’t need this snack in your purse. But the cool thing is that when you focus on glucose, a lot of stuff falls into place. So whatever you call it, it will get better.

Dr. Casey Means (01:15:33):

Here’s a final question, which I think I imagine we’ll end on a hopeful note, but what we’ll see. So can I undo 40 years of poor food choices? Can I still heal my body now?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:15:47):

Yes, absolutely. I see people who are 85 years old who start the hacks and a month later they’re like, “Wow, this is the first time I actually feel good in my body ever.” Your glucose levels in your body responds instantly to what you do. There’s no point will what you eat and how you live not impact how you feel. There’s not a point where you’ve gone so far that whatever you do, nothing’s going to change. It’s not true. Things change instantly. They react to how you eat, how you move, how you manage your stress, how you exercise, how you sleep, who you’re around. Even being around people, you feel differently depending on their energy. Well, food goes inside your body, it impacts you immediately. So it’s never too late. And please, try the hacks in a couple of days. You’ll feel better.

Dr. Casey Means (01:16:31):

I love it. Thank you so much, Jessie.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:16:33):

Thanks, Casey.

Dr. Casey Means (01:16:35):

So to end, tell people, obviously they know where to find you because everyone listening I’m sure already follows you. But share about your website-

Jessie Inchauspé (01:16:42):

Sure.

Dr. Casey Means (01:16:42):

… your Instagram, when and where they can get anti-spike, any other exciting things you want people to know about?

Jessie Inchauspé (01:16:48):

Okay. So Instagram is the hub, glucosegoddess. glucosegoddess, and that’s where everything happens. Anti-Spike is on antispike.com, A-N-T-I-S-P-I-K-E.com. I have two books, Glucose Revolution, which reads a scientific novel in a way, but it’s really, really fun. And then The Glucose Guides Method, which is the four hacks, the four weeks. I have a recipe club, you’ll find that also on my Instagram. I got loads of stuff in this universe. Hop over to Instagram and see what sticks.

Dr. Casey Means (01:17:18):

Amazing. And I feel like you’ve been really excited on Instagram about your recipe club.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:17:22):

Yes.

Dr. Casey Means (01:17:22):

Tell us a little bit about that.

Jessie Inchauspé (01:17:24):

It’s just encouraging people to keep going. So once a month, you receive 10 recipes that I create. It’s three savory breakfasts, three veggie starters, three main dishes, one snack, beautiful Glucose Goddess approved to help you continue to do the hacks. And that’s really good because when you receive them at the end of the month, you’re like, “Oh yes, let’s try a new recipe. Let’s make it easy.” I’m a super lazy cook, so everything is stuff that takes five minutes, six ingredients, and is delicious.